Sweden victorious over COVID-19. Disease goes home devastated.

ex-runner wrote:

daswede wrote:

No. That's insane. You're still missing the plot. NOTHING anyone is going to do is going to change the death toll. The lockdowners will just get it later, at the expense of their economy, plus some people will live out the last few months of their lives in miserable lockdown conditions.

So what you are saying is that medical care is pointless? Hospitals are useless? Everyone who catches it should stay at home and either die or survive?

Perhaps you would give this advice to your parents or other elderly family who might catch the virus?

The whole point of a lockdown is to reduce the max load on the hospitals, so that there are beds available should patients need them. If everyone catches it at the same time they would be coughing themselves to death in the corridors.

Actually, yeah, that's exactly what they're saying and they're correct. As someone with a father who works in the ER, he told me there's nothing the hospital can do to help you, otherwise they would be doing it and there wouldn't be a reason to worry because you can just go to the hospital to get cured. Even people on ventilators still have a 90% mortality rate, and there is no proof that they actually help save people with covid.

So in short, there is no easy answer, the virus is here and is going to run its course whether we lockdown or not, the lockdowns just prolong the inevitable until we develop a cure (which isn't even a definite). It's scary and sad but it's life, and the virus has shown to be WAY less deadly the media projected it to be anyways, so I don't spend that much time worrying about it.

This post is absolute bullsh*t. No other words for it.

It denies science. Denies medicine.

Lockdowns slow the spread of a virus. Fact.

That means less people in the hospital at the same time. Italy ran out of beds rapidly and NYC was the same.

This allows more ventilators to be available, more drugs and doctors. The things that save lives.

So as I said in my other post. Either you discount that medicine is real.

Or you simply say what you are trying to say; you think that we should sacrifice many lives to protect the economy.

I would question you feel the same way should your parents/friends/children die of Covid complications which could have been alleviated with a ventilator and medical care.

You Covid believers totally ignore the tremendous amount of damage being done to us due to these lockdowns as you make your holier than thou declarations

ex-runner wrote:

This post is absolute bullsh*t. No other words for it.

It denies science. Denies medicine.

Lockdowns slow the spread of a virus. Fact.

That means less people in the hospital at the same time. Italy ran out of beds rapidly and NYC was the same.

This allows more ventilators to be available, more drugs and doctors. The things that save lives.

So as I said in my other post. Either you discount that medicine is real.

Or you simply say what you are trying to say; you think that we should sacrifice many lives to protect the economy.

I would question you feel the same way should your parents/friends/children die of Covid complications which could have been alleviated with a ventilator and medical care.

Ventilators have not helped anyone. ICU beds have helped very few. Some people need supplemental oxygen which does not necessitate an ICU bed. Most people could take flovent at home in a nebulizer and get the same effect as a "covid hospitalization." You are wrong. Science is wrong. Science told us there would be "hundreds of millions of deaths" and when that didn't work out it was still "worse than the flu" and then when that didn't work out it was still "worth it to stay locked down to save the elderly and infirm (who are going to die from covid anyway)."

I'm sorry you bought into the BS hook, line, and sinker. It must feel pretty depressing to be you right now and feel like such a fool.

Lol "either you agree with me or you don't think medicine is real."

Which drugs help save lives in this case? Almost 600k dead from covid - which drug would have saved them and why didn't the hospitals administer them? Ventilators haven't even been shown to save lives, there's still a 90% death rate when using them, and the 10% survival rate can't even be proven to be attributed to the ventilator.

You're just making vague, emotional arguments with nothing to back them up.

daswede wrote:

Science told us there would be "hundreds of millions of deaths"

Source please.

daswede wrote:

Science is wrong.

Clown factor 26,000,000 detected.

Please, tell us how to cure Covid-19 with the information you're getting from your Ouija board.

real info wrote:

daswede wrote:

Science is wrong.

Clown factor 26,000,000 detected.

Please, tell us how to cure Covid-19 with the information you're getting from your Ouija board.

There isn't and there will never be any cure.

daswede wrote:

Sweden with no lockdown at 5536 deaths with 10MM pop compared to NYC with extensive lockdowns at 32,065 deaths with <9MM pop? I'll take those numbers all day.

Go Sweden!

You're listing NYC population, but giving statewide death counts.

NY: 23k deaths, < 9MM population (> 27,000 people per square mile)

New York state: 32k deaths, < 20MM population (420 people per square mile)

Sweden has 57.5 people per square mile.

Stuck at home wrote:

daswede wrote:

Sweden with no lockdown at 5536 deaths with 10MM pop compared to NYC with extensive lockdowns at 32,065 deaths with <9MM pop? I'll take those numbers all day.

Go Sweden!

You're listing NYC population, but giving statewide death counts.

NY: 23k deaths, < 9MM population (> 27,000 people per square mile)

New York state: 32k deaths, < 20MM population (420 people per square mile)

Sweden has 57.5 people per square mile.

All numbers are subject to interpretation in 2020.

Armstronglivs wrote:

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/top-epidemiologist-admits-he-got-swedens-covid-19-strategy-wrong

Bro. You posted an article a month and a half old about a pandemic that changes by the hour. It is clear by now that his approach was ENTIRELY right after the rest of the lockdown states ramped up their cases exponentially over the last three weeks.

You're wrong and deceitful.

"They were aiming for this herd immunity thing... they were hoping to get to 65% of people having been infected, by keeping it a bit looser. Guess what the number is? 6.1%... it didn't work at all."

"Of those infected, 7% of those are dying in Sweden... all those numbers have told us it's a much more severe disease than the Swedes anticipated."

https://www.newstalk.com/news/got-badly-wrong-luke-oneill-swedens-coronavirus-approach-1034451

John Macardle wrote:

daswede wrote:

Science told us there would be "hundreds of millions of deaths"

Source please.

Still waiting on that source.

daswede wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/top-epidemiologist-admits-he-got-swedens-covid-19-strategy-wrong

Bro. You posted an article a month and a half old about a pandemic that changes by the hour. It is clear by now that his approach was ENTIRELY right after the rest of the lockdown states ramped up their cases exponentially over the last three weeks.

You're wrong and deceitful.

It does indeed change by the hour. Sweden's death toll keeps going up. With no herd immunity. I haven't seen Tegnell changing his tune since that article and claiming he got it right. Like Trump.

Just the facts.

Sweden did , in fact, have a lockdown. It wasn't quite as extreme but they did

Swedes also altered their behavior, they self-isolated.

Sweden offered very little care to the elderly. basically just left to die. This helped in not overwhelming the ICUs (some say this was the largest factor)

These factors meant that sweden wasn't as bad as expected but not as good as it's neighbors. Sweden also suffered from a drop in GDP and is now in recession.So the approach didn't save them either.

Sweden has not yet achieved herd immunity.

Current polls show (I know blah, blah 2016) that less then half the people support the policy now. Some in the Swedish gov't now regret the decisions and would do it diferently.

In a sense, Sweden shows nothing. Perhaps that maybe it's simply one case study on which to consider different policy but not much else.

daswede wrote:

real info wrote:

Clown factor 26,000,000 detected.

Please, tell us how to cure Covid-19 with the information you're getting from your Ouija board.

There isn't and there will never be any cure.

But everyone panic...

daswede wrote:

victory!! wrote:

Let us compare to Sweden's nearest neighbours: Denmark, Norway and Finland.

Sweden: 578 deaths per million

Denmark: 108 deaths per million

Finland: 57 deaths per million

Norway: 48 deaths per million.

What a victory for Sweden.

Let me know what happens when those countries open for real.

Coming soon to Denmark:

Let me get this straight:

The neighbour countries are at 9-19% of Sweden's death rate.

And you can declare victory now because you are convinced that the other countries will catch up with Sweden.

And you don't think that is just a little early to declare victory?

No, obviously you don't.

I have to ask: Are you a native swede? I ask because I have met a lot of swedes, and none of them were that stupid. But if you are a swede of US origin, I may be inclined to believe that you believe in what you write.

Social distance runner wrote:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.01.20112334v2

Thanks for posting this. I take D3, but I don't take that much magnesium or B12. I will probably increase my daily dosage of those supplements.

I know that an early study was effective using zinc along with hydroxychloroquine, but I haven't seen any followup.

Sweden should be illustrative for the need to study vitamin D. Since it has other benefits, I take a D3 supplement every day.