Did Fauci break Hippocratic oath?

The Gallant Pig Man wrote:

riverhorse wrote:

He admitted to being untruthful about masks and it caused harm.

So you acknowledge that the virus is harmful and that we should implement mask requirements nationwide?

Obviously the OP is a strong advocate for all to wear masks if he is so upset that Fauci did not initially prescribe masks for all.

Star wrote:

Obviously the OP is a strong advocate for all to wear masks if he is so upset that Fauci did not initially prescribe masks for all.

No.

I'm the one who was saying early on the Fauci would be thrown under the bus. I like it too.

Star wrote:

Obviously the OP is a strong advocate for all to wear masks if he is so upset that Fauci did not initially prescribe masks for all.

Yes, and since Fauchi has acknowledged his error, I'm sure he is much, much angrier with Donald Trump for continuing to downplay the importance of masks and the danger of the virus in general.

Seriously? Fauci? Trump has done an enormous amount of harm and Fauci has consistently given the right advice. To this day, Trump's denied the masks were the right thing. The only reason Fauci was poor-mouthing masks at all was that there was a shortage for medical personnel. All these threads should be about how criminal Trump's handling of the crisis has been. We're still hitting 15-30k dead per month, and that will rise.

Everydog wrote:

I'm the one who was saying early on the Fauci would be thrown under the bus. I like it too.

Nice try.

The most remarkable thing about this system is it’s ability to preserve with indefatigable enthusiasm our childish propensity to point our finger and play the blame game. You guys are hopping right on board.

Hey guys I got a popsicle for ya it’s just down in cella

Shaluum shallaaa hallallooo hallaalleee

I think we should blame James k Polk. Like I’m pretty sure he was a duplicitous caulk. He stuck to everything like a disease. It’s best if we focus on posthumously convicting him of being a duplicitous caulk.

Primo Numero Uno wrote:

...This highlights my problem with Fauci, he believes he knows what's best for us and we are not adult enough to decide.

.....The majority of Americans will act like adults if you are honest and explain why you're doing things believe it or not.

....The reason we have this mass divisiveness and refusal for everyone to get together is we have been fed a constant stream of BS from almost all angles from the start.

^This.

It seems people here don't know the truth. Here is the TRUTH.

Fauci has admitted that he purposely LIED to the American people about masks not being effective. He says he lied so that there would be enough masks for medical professionals. He always knew masks were important.

He should have told us all the truth from the beginning. If he said masks are important, but told us to use a different type of face covering (to preserve masks for doctors) then we would have done it. He could have recommended different types of face coverings that people can make at home.

In the meantime, the virus spread like wildfire in February and March. The official numbers aren't crazy high, but we all know testing was extremely deficient then. Besides, if something is increasing exponentially, it's key to keep it small because it will explode once it reaches moderate numbers. February and March were the MOST IMPORTANT TIME to reduce the spread and Fauci LIED TO US. He has tens of thousands of deaths on his hands.

Fauci has said many times that Trump has listened to every recommendation that Fauci has made. He's said it in countless interviews, and even UNDER OATH.

Here's one example:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/03/23/fauci_the_response_of_trump_admin_has_been_impressive_i_cant_imagine_anybody_could_be_doing_more.html

We can’t vote Fauci in or out in November.

On the contrary -- Fauci did not admit he lied, and furthermore Fauci did not lie.

Keep in mind our knowledge of this "novel" virus was very limited, and rapidly evolving, and that around mid-March, the spread of the virus started rapidly increasing.

Before April, the truth was that masks don't help the wearer (except well fitted N-95 masks), and only the sick should wear masks, and we should reserve the well-fitting N-95 masks for the medical workers to avoid shortages. Since the known cases were low in February up to mid-March, there was no reason for healthy people to wear masks. There are also risks to improperly wearing masks.

Furthermore, masks are a second defense: the best defense is social distancing.

He, along with the CDC, and the Surgeon General told us that from the beginning. Fauci even said early on, at the end of February, that if community spread started to increase, the recommendations would change.

Then, in late March, new findings from research showed that asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic spread was much more important than previously known. The previous truths remain truths:

masks don't help the wearer (except well fitted N-95 masks), and only the sick should wear masks, and we should reserve the well-fitting N-95 masks for the medical workers to avoid shortages. Furthermore, masks are a second defense: the best defense is social distancing.

But two things had changed: the spread of the virus had increased, and the number of sick was much larger than previously known, as many were asymptomatic, and testing was below what was needed. So the previous statements were true, particularly "only the sick should wear masks", but the number of sick, and the potential number of sick was much higher, leading to the change in CDC guidelines and recommendations.

These factors led to the recommendations to wear non-medical PPE face coverings to help reduce the spread from those who are sick.

In hindsight, it would have been better to start wearing masks worldwide in January, along with social distancing but this is based on knowledge and factors we did not learn until late March.

If we had a strong federal response, and mimicked what other countries did, like China, Italy, Spain, etc., the virus outbreak would have been contained to manageable small numbers in just a few weeks. Cuomo did this successfully in New York.

Lost in all your outrage is what happened since April. In the same briefing, when Trump announced the changed CDC recommendation to wear masks, Trump emphasized that it was not obligatory, just a guideline, and that he wouldn't do it.

So you could blame the spread of the virus before April on wrong CDC guidelines based, not on lies, but on a lack of information about the virus and how it spreads, to Fauci and other medical experts. But since April, due to the weak leadership and mixed message from Trump, that is 100% all on Trump.

NJ fan wrote:

Fauci has said many times that Trump has listened to every recommendation that Fauci has made. He's said it in countless interviews, and even UNDER OATH.

I guess here you could make a good case for Fauci lying.

In an April 3rd briefing, Trump did not listen to Fauci's recommendation to wear masks, preferring instead to sending a mixed message to a public expecting clear guidance from the most powerful position in the United States.

Furthermore, Trump often went beyond Fauci's recommendations:

- recommending HCQ as a harmless preventative medicine

- advising direct application of disinfectant on the lungs by some method like injection, and other unproven methods like directed heat and UV light

- pressured states to re-open against the CDC guidelines from re-opening

This is because Trump saw himself as a cheer leader, and not a world leader. Trump thought this was a state or local problem, and abdicated his leadership. That is until state and local leaders started shutting down the economy. Then Trump used his dirty tactics to pressure states to re-open early, leading to the predictable and predicted reversal of nationwide resurgence of the virus before succeededing to manage the outbreak in the first wave.

You confuse Trump with Fauci. That's where the responsibility for thousands of deaths lies. And talking of lies - Trump has committed a documented 20,000 in 1200 days of his presidency. Fauci didn't lie; he changed his advice as the facts changed - unlike Trump who doubles down with his denial of the facts.

NJ fan wrote:

Fauci has said many times that Trump has listened to every recommendation that Fauci has made. He's said it in countless interviews, and even UNDER OATH.

Here's one example:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/03/23/fauci_the_response_of_trump_admin_has_been_impressive_i_cant_imagine_anybody_could_be_doing_more.html

Fauci hasn't said that. He repeatedly corrects Trump's falsehoods and misinformation. Trump meanwhile tries to undermine Fauci's credibility. Won't work. The polls say voters don't trust Trump.

Fauci lied through his teeth on the mask issue. ? Let Big Del break it down for you. The WH task force is nothing but a clown show: ?

Armstronglivs wrote:

You confuse Trump with Fauci. That's where the responsibility for thousands of deaths lies. And talking of lies - Trump has committed a documented 20,000 in 1200 days of his presidency. Fauci didn't lie; he changed his advice as the facts changed - unlike Trump who doubles down with his denial of the facts.

Oh...sure - like the Democrats don't lie and deny facts. Lol. Who was the idiot that sent thousands of infected people to the nursing homes in his state? You want to try Democratic governor Cuomo! By such a cruel and stupid move on his part thousands died unnecessarily in the nursing homes! In fact, 45% of all of New York's coronavirus deaths are nursing home related!

You should be appreciative of Trump for making the very difficult decision of shutting down the country and destroying an economy in order to save millions of lives! But the Democrats never give him credit for that - they just keep stirring the pot and attacking him all for their agenda of putting Sleepy Joe in Office. You know the Democrats hate Trump with a passion ever since he beat their golden girl in the election. Now the Democrats are in the 4th quarter and they'll say anything and do anything to hurt his chances of reelection.

I don't think you understand politics very well. This is an election year and the Democrats are pulling out their entire arsenal to get at Trump! ?

It's becoming a clown show wrote:

Fauci lied through his teeth on the mask issue. ? Let Big Del break it down for you. The WH task force is nothing but a clown show: ?

No argument about the White House task force led by Mike Pence including appointed members like Larry Kudlow and Steve Mnuchin.

Of course Fauci did not lie through his teeth. You misunderstood or misrepresent what happened, as did Beg Del.

The video was fine, especially the clips from the medical experts, until at around 3:33, when Big Del concludes "So we lied to you ..."

Of course these were not lies, but truthful statements based on the known infection rate at that time, and the knowledge of the virus at that time.

All of the statements in the videos from Fauci and the Surgeon general and the other medical experts were true statements, then and now.

Big Del told the first lie, and continued for 4 minutes building lies upon lies.

Try to read my timeline above, and the related facts, and remember the context in which these truthful statements were made.

First clear your mind of all misunderstandings and misconceptions, then read, or re-read the timeline, and then follow it up with wider research historical investigation of the timeline yourself, correlated with the infection rate, and the evolving scientific knowledge, and stop letting confused people like Big Del do the thinking for you.

To recap:

Months ago, the known infections were very small.

Months ago, it was not necessary for healthy people to wear masks.

Months ago, the masks, both leaky drug store masks, and poorly fitted N-95 masks, do not do much to protect healthy people, and can have unintended consequences.

Months ago, there was a concern of shortage of PPE equipment for medical workers.

Months ago, no need to wear mask on that day, but the advice can change if factors change, such as the increase in community spread.

In April, due to the rapid increase in community spread, and the new findings that people can be infected and asymptomatic, changed the equation in favor of recommending all face coverings.

Thereafter, it was still not necessary for healthy people to wear masks, but without sufficient testing, and with asymptomatic infected people, we cannot know who is healthy any longer.

Thereafter, the masks still do not do much to protect healthy people, and still can have unintended consequences.

Thereafter, the masks can reduce the spread from the increasing number of known, and not known, infected people.