Fauci admits to lying - but we cannot question him now

And here we have the classic "Appeal/Yield to Authority" fallacy.

YMMV wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

Here we have a fake expert telling us who is a fake expert, as he dismisses the expertise of the health advisor to a succession of presidents.

And here we have the classic "Appeal/Yield to Authority" fallacy.

Some people do have authority, based on their credentials, experience and acknowledged expertise. Fauci has that. The fallacy is in not recognising that kind of authority based on qualifications and expertise. But you do. You would expect that only a qualified surgeon should operate on you or that only a qualified pilot should fly the plane in which you are a passenger.

The lie wasn't that masks don't work. He started lying once they told him to say they do. The science still has zero basis for claiming that.

Armstronglivs wrote:

YMMV wrote:

And here we have the classic "Appeal/Yield to Authority" fallacy.

Some people do have authority, based on their credentials, experience and acknowledged expertise. Fauci has that. The fallacy is in not recognising that kind of authority based on qualifications and expertise. But you do. You would expect that only a qualified surgeon should operate on you or that only a qualified pilot should fly the plane in which you are a passenger.

Not a good comparison. The surgeon and pilot are actual practitioners... Fauci is essentially a mouthpiece with power.

I watched the video, and I didn't actually get what was the lie, nor the admission of a lie. This looks like a false conclusion.

Masks are not very effective at protecting the wearer. That was considered true then and still considered true now.

Masks are more effective at reducing the spread from infected persons.

Social distancing was recommended and Fauci said it was better than masks.

Social distancing without a mask protects the public, while the short supply of masks can be prioritized to front line medical workers.

It doesn't seem that Jimmy Dore drew a very logical conclusion, or makes very solid recommendations of how to respond.

He must really doubt Trump/Pence who today still discourage the use of masks.

Using Jimmy Dore's arguments, I won't ever trust Trump or Pence again, nor Jimmy Dore, without double checking.

YMMV wrote:

And here we have the classic "Appeal/Yield to Authority" fallacy.

As bad as that is, the wrong solution is to yield to non-authority.

Bad Wigins wrote:

The lie wasn't that masks don't work. He started lying once they told him to say they do. The science still has zero basis for claiming that.

There is great than zero basis in science for the effectiveness of masks to reduce the spread of the virus.

rekrunner wrote:

Bad Wigins wrote:

The lie wasn't that masks don't work. He started lying once they told him to say they do. The science still has zero basis for claiming that.

There is great than zero basis in science for the effectiveness of masks to reduce the spread of the virus.

A greater than zero basis would mean a preponderance of evidence that they are effective. There is no such preponderance of evidence, therefore there is no (i.e., "zero") basis for claiming it.

These claims aren't happening in a vacuum. The political and economic motives are transparent. Corporate media, in particular, never fails to embellish a horror story for every cent of profit it can squeeze from it.

Bad Wigins wrote:

A greater than zero basis would mean a preponderance of evidence that they are effective. There is no such preponderance of evidence, therefore there is no (i.e., "zero") basis for claiming it.

These claims aren't happening in a vacuum. The political and economic motives are transparent. Corporate media, in particular, never fails to embellish a horror story for every cent of profit it can squeeze from it.

Ah. You must be working with a larger value of zero than I am.

I have seen pretty solid science showing the effectiveness of masks at reducing the spread of the virus.

This is also borne out by observations in other countries that have complied with the recommendations. We can see now what works by comparing the results of various countries applying different approaches. What the US and UK are doing is failing.

You provide zero basis for claiming political and economic motives, and blaming corporate media for cashing in on a horror story.

kibitzer wrote:

So you're saying he admitted he was wrong?

Well! Our *President* would never do that!

No.

He claims he lied to us. If it is true that he was lying then, he is responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of Americans.

Try not to make everything about Trump.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Here we have a fake expert telling us who is a fake expert, as he dismisses the expertise of the health advisor to a succession of presidents.

The health advisor who claims he lied about having to use masks -- thus killing tens of thousands of people if you believe what he now says.

That health advisor? Can't question him?

fauci is not and never was the most important medical person. that position has always belonged to trump. fauci has been walking a tightrope. if he tells us the total truth he can no longer help us get through this because he will be replaced. they tried with blix who is more amenable to stretching the truth. now she appears gone. the first official liar around masks was the surgeon general : "they are bad for you". but he was just lying under orders because we had no masks and still don't have the right ones. any idiot could look at pictures from asia and see that everyone wore a mask in february. now we have decided that a cotton t-shirt mask is great. that is for political reasons. do you think the chinese are wearing masks made out of t-shirt cotton?

I watched the early press conferences and while I was initially impressed with Fauci, I moved him into Nassim Taleb's IYI (Intellectual Yet Idiot) category early on and I've ignored him since then.

IYIs tend to intellectualize without "Skin in the Game." Fauci seems to be more concerned about his legacy and keeping his prestigious job than saving lives. Fauci is 79. He probably has FU money and could have said whatever he believed. He would have found a willing audience on CNN if he disagreed with Trump. Instead, he tried to walk the tightrope by speaking out of both sides of his mouth.

However, my biggest complaint with Fauci et al is their blind obedience to Big Pharma by only mentioning pharmaceutical drugs as possible therapeutics. Meanwhile, a tiny but growing body of experts are finding correlations between prevalence/severity of COVID-19 with deficiencies in zinc, vitamin D, and more recently, melatonin. A study of 11,672 COVID-19 tests found a 7% positive rate among patients suspected of having COVID-19. Among those taking melatonin daily, the rate was only 3%. You'd think Fauci et al would at least mention this... instead... crickets.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0012369220316548

[quote]rekrunner wrote:

I watched the video, and I didn't actually get what was the lie, nor the admission of a lie.

I think the part where Fauci claims he lied in March would be an admission of a lie.

No?

I think he is lying now

[quote]older runner wrote:

fauci is not and never was the most important medical person. that position has always belonged to trump. fauci has been walking a tightrope. if he tells us the total truth he can no longer help us get through this because he will be replaced. they tried with blix who is more amenable to stretching the truth. now she appears gone. the first official liar around masks was the surgeon general : "they are bad for you". but he was just lying under orders because we had no masks

WE had no masks? When was that?

Bad Wigins wrote:

The lie wasn't that masks don't work. He started lying once they told him to say they do. The science still has zero basis for claiming that.

Here you are:

But of course you are not really interested in the evidence. For everyone else: masks reduce the spread of the virus particles significantly, surgical masks do a better job than cotton or self made masks (like who could have known that..)

Giles Corey wrote:

[quote]older runner wrote:

fauci is not and never was the most important medical person. that position has always belonged to trump. fauci has been walking a tightrope. if he tells us the total truth he can no longer help us get through this because he will be replaced. they tried with blix who is more amenable to stretching the truth. now she appears gone. the first official liar around masks was the surgeon general : "they are bad for you". but he was just lying under orders because we had no masks

WE had no masks? When was that?

It was very difficult to find masks in the New York area in mid March through April. If you could find them you'd have to pay $10 or buy on line in bulk. If you were poor, forgetaboutit. Same for vitamins and other supplements, sanitizer or rubbing alcohol, and gloves once the hoarding started.

Giles Corey wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

I watched the video, and I didn't actually get what was the lie, nor the admission of a lie.

I think the part where Fauci claims he lied in March would be an admission of a lie.

No?

I think he is lying now

I guess it would if it actually happened. It's not clear to me what the lie is supposed to be.

I see you typing the words again, I heard Jimmy Dore say it. I saw it in the Washington Examiner.

But I did not hear Fauci either tell a lie, or admit he told a lie, either in March, or now.

Beep Beep wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

Some people do have authority, based on their credentials, experience and acknowledged expertise. Fauci has that. The fallacy is in not recognising that kind of authority based on qualifications and expertise. But you do. You would expect that only a qualified surgeon should operate on you or that only a qualified pilot should fly the plane in which you are a passenger.

Not a good comparison. The surgeon and pilot are actual practitioners... Fauci is essentially a mouthpiece with power.

Fauci attended Cornell and graduated first in his class.

The Institute for Scientific Information stated that from 1983 to 2002, "Fauci was the 13th most-cited scientist among the 2.5 to 3 million authors in all disciplines throughout the world who published articles in scientific journals"

In 2015, he won the John Dirks Canada Gairdner Global Health Award. Since its inception, the Global Health Award has become one of the world’s most prestigious awards recognizing excellence in global health research.

So he’s hitting all the universal standards for success AND receiving nonstop recognition from global scientists, but you think none of that matters. You just live in a world where YouTube is your truth.