Hicham El Guerrouj 10x300 in 35-36 seconds with 3 -4 minutes rest.

Belarussiya wrote:

A 1:59 what?

I meant a 1:59 800m, to make the conversions relatable to us average runners.

I was saying that this workout would be the equivalent of a ~1:59 800m runner (~0:58/1:01) doing the reps in ~0:43 - totally believable.

I believe it.

jamin wrote:

Belarussiya wrote:

A 1:59 what?

this workout would be the equivalent of a ~1:59 800m runner (~0:58/1:01) doing the reps in ~0:43 - totally believable.

Agreed. I was a little slower than this at my best and I did 300s in 45-46 on my best day, though I couldn't have done 10.

I also assume that El G's actual 300s were like 35 mid to 36 high. It's incredible (in both senses).

Remember that workout thread about Rashid Ramzi's 8 X 1K workout in 2:30? That was also incredible. To my knowledge, the main advantage of EPO is that it allows you to do these monster workouts 6 months out from race day.

35-36 indicates anywhere from 46.7 to 49.33 at even pace. The fact that he could do ten of these indicates that his 400m ability was far better than what have said here, even if he had a flying start. It shows that he would very likely have been sub 1:42, but didn't compete in the 800m because Kipketer was dominant then and would have punctured his aura of invulnerability. More to the point, it shows why he at the time the workout schedule was published had the goal of running 3:24 but conditions never quite worked out for that.

Agreed, he had at least sub 1:43 ability and that's obvious. Even Jakob is under estimated here, he can run a much faster 800 than most think.

Believable.

El G was good for 1:42 800m in the right conditions. His speed endurance was insane.

You gotta think his 400m was most likely 48-flat.

So this is a guy peaking, with a pacer, running 75% of that distance with a flying start.

3-4 min rest which is a ton for a guy with this level of speed endurance and aerobic engine.

Known for insane training, pushing mentally to the limits.

No doubt the average was probably 36-low secs, with the last one all out in 35-mid.

10 x 300m is much closer in effort to 10x 200m than it is to 10 x 400m.

popopop wrote:

We’ve all seen the training schedule you’re referring to. I have a hard time believing most of the workouts, even for a 3:26.0/12:50 guy.

A workout like the one stated in this thread, would have required greater 200m & 400m speed. Was he ever capable of a 35.0 300m, even with a rolling start?

I ran 3:41 for 1500m and 13:38 for 5000m, and I did 6 x 300m in 39 with much less rest than El G. I’m pretty sure he did that workout, with rolling start and using his workout rabbits.

His mile time isn’t much slower than my 1500m time for perspective.

Also my best 400m was 52.9, and I considered myself slow. I’m sure El G was waaaaay faster than me at 400m.

Halvard wrote:

Agreed, he had at least sub 1:43 ability and that's obvious. Even Jakob is under estimated here, he can run a much faster 800 than most think.

Not so sure about 1:42 for EL G for 800m. I think he would have run a few on the circuit and could easily have found some races without Kipketer in, if being beaten was a concern. Just choose a smaller meet with his own pacers taking the first lap in 50/51.

In another thread some years ago, just after EL G retired, a poster claimed that EL G was asked about his 400 and 800 ability and claimed it was 49 and 1:45. When his coach was asked he said 48 something and 1:44 in training.

" I just spoke to El G and his coach seperately and asked them the same questions. Hicham said 49-50 seconds for 400m and 1:45 for 800m. I then asked his coach the same questions-he said he has run 48 for 400m and 1:44 high for 800m in training. He said he would do 4X800m at 1:48 each with 3min rest between them in training. He said he thought he could probably run 1:43 low at 800."

Those 300 reps could have been with rolling starts and been mostly 36 high, with one in 35 high. There were also quite long recoveries between each. That doesn't necessarily indicate 1:42 ability for 800m.

In an interview in L'Equipe magazine at the end of the 81 season, Coe claimed that he had carried out, on grass, a series of three 300m (with twenty seconds of recovery) in 36 - 37 seconds (two series with five minutes apart).

[b]"Sur l'herbe, Coe a effectue, notamment en 1981, des series de trois 300m enchaines (avec vingt secondes de recuperation) en 36 - 37 secs (deux series avec cinq minutes d'intervalle)"

He claims that before LA he was running 8 or 10 x 300m with 100m jogs between (dropping down to about 20 secs) in 39s and 40s, and trying to 'rattle through the last one in 37s and bits'

If this happened then I think El G could manage 36 secs for 10 with 3 or 4mins rest between each.

The workout doesn't seem unreasonable to me. I ran 8 x 300 with less rest (prob 2:30) in 43.5 avg when my 800 PR was 2:02.5 and my 1500 PR was 4:05.0. I did not have a flying start and did not have a pacesetter. Last rep was 42. Since El G was about 10 seconds a lap faster than me in races, that would be 7.5 seconds faster at 300m, so 43.5 - 7.5 = 36.0, seems right

On the issue of significant figures, during my workout, my coach was counting the seconds as I crossed the line. A "43" could have been 43.99, so my actual average may have been as high as 44.5. If that were the case 44.5 - 7.5 = 37.0, still in the stated range.

On the effort of the workout, I found it much easier to do this workout than when I ran 8 x 400 with 63.0 average (same rest).

To add to my post, my fastest 300m was 40.5 (around the same time as the workout I described), and a month or so later I ran 54.64 for 400m in a relay. My 400m PR at the time was 55.02 in an actual race from a standing start.

On this thread, it has been discussed if el Guerrouj had 1:42 or 1:43 800m speed. Not a chance. If el Guerrouj believed he had any where near that type of 800m potential he would have raced 800m in African Games &/or African Championships &/or Mediterranean Games. el Guerrouj had inferior 400m & 800m ability to Steve Cram. When Steve Cram logs on here under his name and states he was able to do 10 x 300m averaging 35.5, I will consider then believing if el Guerrouj ever was capable of doing 10 x 300m averaging 35.5. Now if Steve Ovett or Steve Holman said they did 10 x 300m, averaging 35.0 to 36.0, I would believe them.

Morose delectation Aquinas tunbelly calls this, frate porcospino. Adam rode and not rutted. Per cominciare, due insalate verdi con peperoni e un linguini primavera.

Posted in case I forget the 16th. Malmo, be well.

Muffed the movie quote. Should have been

Un ossobuco milanese con piselli.

Melanzane parmigiana con spinaci.

- Dov'и la farmacia?

- Yes, yes, yes!

I guess the difference between myself and Malmo is that when I tell my guys to run 35-36 they know that I meant to be in that range. If they run 36.1 they are too slow.

Regardless of this trivial point, the main part of the conversation is about the workout and I don't care they meant he averaged 36.99, there is still no chance of him running 10 of them.

As an example, this is a work out Andre Bucher 1:42.55 did (with Sepeng 1:42 and Longo 1:43) - only Andre was able to finish the workout.

2x4x300 with 5/10 recovery in

1. 37.8/ 37.6/ 36.8/ 37.5

2. 37.6/ 37.7/ 37.1/ 36.9

I've put the decimal points in so there is no confusion as to the times he ran :)

I can't see ElG doing 2 more reps as a single set with less overall recovery at a quicker pace.

What’s the closest thing to this that Tinman does?