El Guerrouj 400m and 800m speed

I will be naive and say that I believe all of this! (I suspect several will call BS that you spoke to them!) Those times seem reasonable to me, especially since El G closed 1:46 at the end of his career, and averaged sub 55 laps for 1500m WR.

Don't forget he came within 2.5sec of the 3000m WR - about 17m??? Pretty close really, in the grand scheme.

I live in Eugene,OR and he was at the Nike Store with Justin Gatlin at 3pm PST signing autographs, those are indisputable facts. He was signing and I asked him, his coach was in the other area of the store and spoke decent english and was very nice in speaking to me for a few minutes while I asked him questions.

That's so cool! You lucky bastard! :) Did you get a pic?

WELL CONSIDERING THAT SILVA HAS A PB OF 1:44 HI AND WAS WALKING EL G DOWN IN A 1:46 FINAL 800 AT THE GAMES, I WOUDL THINK EL G COULD GO 1:44.5 -1:45. IT'S HIS ABILITY TO SUSTAIN ABOUT 90 PERCENT OF THAT WHICH IS IMPRESSIVE

a good friend of mine who lives in eugene just got done playing a pick up game of soccer wth a bunch of mroccan runners. one of them was el g! cracks me up!

The first part of your post strikes me as very realistic; El G raced the way he did for an obvious reason--he did not have great basic speed for a 1500 runner; unlike the champions past who did (Snell/Ryun/Coe/Ovett, etc.), he was a doped strength runner who needed to run the kick out of faster men, hence taking it up with 600-800 to go.

But 12:30 for 5000 is fantasy land, unless they chose to bump his hematocrit up to sludge-like levels, and hope he doesn't die in the attempt.

El G could run around 43/44 for a 400m and 1-39/40 for 800m.

In his career he focused on 1500m and later on he ran a few 5ks so we never saw his best efforts for 400m/800m. But I am sure that he managed those sorts of 400m/800m times quite comfortably on the training track in morocco.

hicham could probably get 47 and 1:43-44

i think it seemd to fit as an endurance miler(if he was that)

he did most of his runs at 18 seconds a 100 meter.Or 20 km/hour. Abbove that add some intervals of 2 km at 16 seconds a 100 meter. 56 second laps arent that far away then. I mean that is 14 second a 100 meter pace.say 4:46 for the mile.

if his time was 45 seconds or under probably all his runs at 20 km/hour would ve killed of his capability to run he mile and under...If you dont understand what i talk about think about those slow and fast twitch muscles if you run at 20 km/hour in el gueroujj that even for him is recruiting quite some fast twitchrs to act like slow twitchers... That wouldnt be good for a sprinter...

If there is one thing i learned from marius bakken and renato canova its that.

For endurance people try that with your pace runs say 85% - 87% mhr.

convert them to 100 meter time and distract 4 seconds...

With me it seems to fit a bit.The formula says i am at slightly under 5 minutes mile fitness. I am the endurance type as well. Seems to fit me alright.

that was supposed to be 3:46 a mile 14 second a 100 merter pace. Typing 3:46 sounds so eird to my brain i made it 4:46...

Just try it.You'd be amazed. I was so actually i dont differ that much from gueroujj except i am slower... I mean my speed difference is quite the same.Its not something extrodinary...He is human to ... just verry talented and verry big on edurance.

with my calculator I've got:

400m - 47.82

800m - 1:42.85

I entered his 3000m time and his 1500m time to get the result.

this is a very "important" historical thread, not one that shoud be posted on, unless the man or his coach actually open up

it's not a "calculator topic", but a human analysis one

what slivers of info the camp woud send out

the starting post(s) are of huge historical significance & shoud never be removed

i've quoted this post over many, many years but never posted on it, because it is too important to sully

it shoud never be deleted

fwiw, now someone has "sullied" it, off seeing souleman running 1'42.97 off ~ 8.5m extra distance with little effective drafting & "quitting" in last ~ 20m, i'd have to offer hicham a prelim :

~ 47-flat / 1'42-low

but

~ 46-mid / 1'41-high

offer same ~ 1500 !

the man had huge kick on last lap : 53.2 in a 3'26.00 !!!

you can't do this off crap 400 speed !!!

it will never be known about hicham's possible 800 ability, other than obviously likely at worst 1'42+, until his camp offers some un-ambiguous comments about 400 speed

( PLEASE DON'T DELETE THE '06 POSTS )

Skuj wrote:Those times seem reasonable to me, especially since El G closed 1:46 at the end of his career

even though it was flying start last 800, it was a -ve split of ? 54+ / 52+ ??

i'll check exact splits later

anyhows, 800s are supposed to be run off 2s +ve splits

the formula i use to convert reduction is modulus

( 2nd lap - 1st - 2.00 ) * 1/3

the more likely assessment is that hicham & bernie ran a "usual" 700m in a championship race, but put in a

"proper"

~ 1'44+

( undrafted for hicham = solo )

last 800

ventolin^3 wrote:

this is a very "important" historical thread, not one that shoud be posted on

i've quoted this post over many, many years but never posted on it, because it is too important to sully

it shoud never be deleted

fwiw, now someone has "sullied" it

( PLEASE DON'T DELETE THE '06 POSTS )

You say the thread should not be posted on and yet you post on it. You say the thread should not be "sullied" because it is too important to "sully" and then you "sully" it.

eh ?

what part of actual 9y wait, expected eternity wait, can't your neurone comprehend ?

I stand by my original post. I was just literally telling my wife this story the other day. His coach was very nice to speak to me that day so I tried to ask many questions as I could. At the same time I guess I am not sure if he was speaking specifically about doing the training portion of the info I listed at altitude in the Atlas mountains in Morocco and I am curious if someone obviously smarter than I could convert that if there is a conversion from altitude.

ventolin^3 wrote:

anyhows, 800s are supposed to be run off 2s +ve splits

Proof?

Agreed. I suspect he couldn't have broken 48 or 1:44. People extrapolate his 400 & 800 ability based on what he did in 1500's and how he closed in them, without adding into the equation the fact he was almost certainly doped to the gills on EPO and whatever other combination. Had he run some competitive 800's the athletic fraternity would have been more aware of the fake he was. He didn't have the speed of some of the greats, but his endurance was just too good to be true or natural.

that is utter nonsense

did you not see baala, a primary 1500 guy who ran 1'43.1 in his 1st serious elite 800 ???

or how about webb, who had never broken 1'46 before '07 & then shattered it down to 1'43.8 in his 1st serious elite 800 ???!!!

- even Asbel who runs 800 of primary 1500 ran 1'43.1 as a raw kid at 19y

- maloofi with 1'43.5pb

- cram, a primary 1500 guy runs 1'42.8 with ~ 5m extra on bends in a tactical race !!!

you seriously so clueless as to believe baala & webb were superior athletes to hicham ???

do you think if cram coud run 1'42+ off 3'29+ ability that hicham was not capable of breaking 1'44 ???

utterly clueless

he finished 3'26.00 with 53.2 !!!

if you think that can be done off 1'44+ speed then you have no clue about running

nonsense

you think he was doping

you so inept to believe doping woud only help 1500 but not 800 ???

he didn't run 800s as he knew he was going to get beat by Kip & he didn't want his invincible aura dented at any distance in late-'90s

utter nonsense

he didn't have intrinsic 800 speed of baala/webb/cram/laloo/chirchir/Asbel ???