sad to say it, but I'm slowly coming around on reparations

White man's eyes see all wrote:

comedyrelieves wrote:

Do you mean impediments like those that descendants of Chinese American workers that built the transcontinental railroad, Japanese Americans that were interned in concentration camps in the US and refugees from Vietnam and Cambodia were able to somehow overcome to become the highest per capita income group of any ethnic group in this country?

It's almost like Blacks were singularly subjected to slavery, disenfranchisement of voting rights, and denial of employment opportunities that other groups didn't have to deal with, which have contributed to a specifically-subjugated section of society.

Maybe there should be something that makes up for this.

We could call it...

reparations.

Alright, I'll bite. What kind of reparations do you propose?

comedyrelieves wrote:

Do you mean impediments like those that descendants of Chinese American workers that built the transcontinental railroad...

I'd like to single this comment out for its sheer idiocy.

there were 11,000 people Chinese people working on the railroad.

60,000-70,000 Chinese people immigrate to the US each year.

The successful Chinese of today aren't descendants of oppressed railroad workers. they're immigrants and children of immigrants.

Immigration, in case you weren't aware, requires a sufficient financial stability.

Guessing you did not know that most people that you consider white in the US, have only been here for 100 years. Guessing that you did not know that almost all of the descendants of slave owners are the people that you consider black. So the problem has sort of taken care of itself if you want the descendants of slave owners to pay.

Racket wrote:

Alright, I'll bite. What kind of reparations do you propose?

An honest assessment of the institutions that exist that unequally benefit white people; a correction of those institutions to distribute benefits fairly; and I would encourage a three-generation evaluation of economic impact to incorporate lost opportunities of investment, inheritance and land appreciation, with a lump-sum payment that would allow today's generation to start to break the cycle that began hundreds of years ago.

Uncle Sammy wrote:

Guessing you did not know that most people that you consider white in the US, have only been here for 100 years. Guessing that you did not know that almost all of the descendants of slave owners are the people that you consider black. So the problem has sort of taken care of itself if you want the descendants of slave owners to pay.

None of this actually correct. Well, yes, all the white people have been here 100 years or less, because the rest of them are dead.

No, most of the slave owners were not black.

White man's eyes see all wrote:

[quote]Racket wrote:

Alright, I'll bite. What kind of reparations do you propose?

An honest assessment of the institutions that exist that unequally benefit white people; a correction of those institutions to distribute benefits fairly;

You're gonna have to be more specific than that. It's already against the law to discriminate based on race. What exactly do you have in mind that isn't already covered by the 14th Amendment and Civil Rights Act?

and I would encourage a three-generation evaluation of economic impact to incorporate lost opportunities of investment, inheritance and land appreciation, with a lump-sum payment that would allow today's generation to start to break the cycle that began hundreds of years ago.

I think we both know this isn't possible for several reasons, but let's just assume it is. How does a lump sum payment help "break the cycle." If you talk about the issues with "systemic racism," then I don't see how distributing lump sum payments really changes that at any level. It's not going to make white people less racist, and in fact I'd posit you'd increase the number of white people with prejudices towards the black community with such a plan.

The only way any change gets made is if it comes from a coordinated effort, starting at the top. You've got to convince people that helping the black community in any material way is beneficial for everyone in the community, as a sort of mutual obligation. And I don't know how that gets done.

Uncle Sammy wrote:

I don't think you would like the results. What if it shows that blacks have been the recipients of everything and whites have been the providers of everything. If all crime is included and scholarships and welfare and affirmative action, I have a feeling blacks owe whites. I would rather start clean but it sounds like you don't like that solution and you don't like facts.

People have been examining this issue in depth for decades, but Jethro on LRC probably has it all figured out that Blacks are just freeloaders who should thank white people for everything they have.

You're the reason there are riots.

I agree that it is an ugly truth. Slave owners and their sons were nasty people. They frequently raped slave woman and did not allow many black males to reproduce. Most of the blacks in the US are 25% white and are descended from slave owners. These are uncomfortable facts that nobody should be proud of. Most whites are descended from people who migrated here in the last 100 years.

In terms if reparations, this is why it is difficult. If everyone takes a DNA test and it is proven that a white family has only been here for 100 years but it shows that their black neighbor had slave owners as relatives, who pays? Another complicating factor if DNA is not used, I am adopted and I have no idea what my heritage is. I look white but really don't know.

No, I don't have it figured out but thought we were having a civil exchange. Why jump to name calling and accusations?

Racket wrote:

The only way any change gets made is if it comes from a coordinated effort, starting at the top. You've got to convince people that helping the black community in any material way is beneficial for everyone in the community, as a sort of mutual obligation. And I don't know how that gets done.

Actually I do know how: you start with issues that everyone can get behind. For instance, everyone can agree that cops have become a general plague on society with little to no accountability (bonus: cops are helping prove that during all the protests with even more unnecessary force!). Reforming police unions, general training methodologies, and oversight is something that everyone in the community will benefit from. Will the black community benefit more from it than white communities? Yes, probably.

Not true. US born Asians have higher incomes, lower poverty rates and higher educational attainment than foreign born:

https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/fact-sheet/asian-americans-japanese-in-the-u-s/

https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/fact-sheet/asian-americans-vietnamese-in-the-u-s-fact-sheet/

Most of the immigrants who come here, still come here poor.

An honest assessment of the institutions that exist that unequally benefit white people; a correction of those institutions to distribute benefits fairly;

the disenfranchisement of voters, the disproportionate imbalance of Blacks in public leadership positions, and the imbalance of loans and financial assistance to Black businesses. We can start there.

Who cares what the white people think? This isn't about them. This is about allowing blacks to benefit from things like land appreciation, inheritance from family members, and investment capital that would have been accruing all this time had they not been denied. sure, some might blow it on crack. some college kids blow their inheritance on cocaine. But Black families don't even get a chance to pass along inheritances because they haven't been allowed to build up wealth. They can't sell grandma's house, because grandma wasn't allowed to buy a house.

Fix that.

Again, you're beginning with the presumption that first and foremast, it has to be palatable to white people. That's exactly the reason this system has subsisted all these years. What's better for white people is if Black people are held down. And if you can't fix that, society is indelibly broken, and will collapse.

comedyrelieves wrote:

Not true. US born Asians have higher incomes, lower poverty rates and higher educational attainment than foreign born:

https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/fact-sheet/asian-americans-japanese-in-the-u-s/https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/fact-sheet/asian-americans-vietnamese-in-the-u-s-fact-sheet/

Most of the immigrants who come here, still come here poor.

Again, meaningless. they're immigrants, not descendants of railroad workers.

Uncle Sammy wrote:

No, I don't have it figured out but thought we were having a civil exchange. Why jump to name calling and accusations?

How could you possibly have thought we were having a civil exchange, when your contribution was "the slaveowners were black, there are no descendants of white slaveowners, and blacks freeeload so much they probably owe the whites something"?

Uncle Sammy wrote:

I don't think you would like the results. What if it shows that blacks have been the recipients of everything and whites have been the providers of everything. If all crime is included and scholarships and welfare and affirmative action, I have a feeling blacks owe whites. I would rather start clean but it sounds like you don't like that solution and you don't like facts.

In this country, we have quite a few people who were born on third base and think they hit a triple. They think that if THEY were born into poverty, if they were on the other side of the race continuum, that they would have heroically achieved everything they have and more. In any case, for something tangible, you might look at improving educational opportunities. The Education Trust, for example, has reviewed funding and found inequities -- figures are in a 2018 report:

"In the U.S. today, school districts serving the largest populations of Black, Latino, or American Indian students receive roughly $1,800, or 13 percent, less per student in state and local funding than those serving the fewest students of color. This may seem like an insignificant amount, but it adds up. For a school district with 5,000 students, a gap of $1,800 per student means a shortage of $9 million per year."

Sorry, I mistook your original proposal as a solution to fixing systemic racism in America. You seem to be more concerned with simply making black people rich overnight with an assumption that it would also buy them a seat at the table.

I find your ruminations to be on par with an overzealous 19 year old liberal arts major, with a general understanding of socio-economic issues and race relations in America roughly matching. Good luck!

Easy solution : each person who is a direct descendant of an American slave is paid $330,000. Each person who is the direct descendant of a slave owner or confederate veteran must pay $100,000 . The balance comes from the treasury of states that joined the confederacy .

Simple and easy.

But most blacks are descendants of slave owners. That gtes complicated.