(Road Racing and) Time Trialing and Training Thread - Week Ending 5/17/20

Before comments I would like to put a plug in there for the Fuelcell TC Elite. The shoes arrived last night and I strapped them on for an LT workout this morning (3x2mile w/ 2:30 jog/12 miles total) and holy cow this is a great shoe. I found it to perform ALMOST as well as the Next% without the awkwardness at slower paces. Additionally it is a bit cheaper, seems way more durable and fits a lot better. If anyone is looking for a shoe they don't feel ridiculous wearing 1-2 times a week that performs almost as well as the Vaporfly I would highly recommend giving the TC Elite a shot.

Comments...

Stone: Looks like you are starting to ramp back up well. I like your plan for the next 6 months. That said, one of my biggest “what ifs” over the last few months is what you could have dropped in a half when you were just ripping workouts pre-COVID. Maybe some of us are just built to burn bright and the blow-up a couple of times a year. Congrats again to your wife on the marathon TT. Given how quickly she bounced back she must be very fit.

GT: You look like you are getting in shape quickly. That is a lot of quality packed in there. Nice work.

RRR: It has been really cool seeing you bounce back. My guess is the next 2 months will be big for you.

Imagebearer: Really solid, consistent work. I am not going to lie, using R for Thursday and U for Sunday is really throwing me off though.

Slo: That is an awesome week. A bit of everything and some very solid volume. At some point I will have to give Deek’s quarters a try. Even thinking about it makes me want to puke though.

Rucker: Solid, consistent volume. Like the strength training. My arms would fall off if I tried to do 200-300 pushups a day.

Smoove: Really good week. I bet the last mile on that progression run felt food.

GNR: Nice work on the 2 mile TT. The TTs you are putting up are. Very impressive.

Sub6: Solid consistent volume. I hear you on the work stuff.

Runnersam: Really solid stuff. Excellent Tuesday workout and overall volume.

Lanc: That is indeed a strong Tuesday workout. Looks like you didn’t give yourself much of a break leading up to that TT. I have been dropping a 6 miler the day before TTs to cut my body some slack. I find the difference between 6 and 8-10 to be HUGE for some reason.

Rhodium: You are putting in some really consistent training. I suspect this will pay huge dividends for you. I enjoy following your progress on Strava.

Tyler: It seems like you could use a break for a week or two w/ no workout and just some easy mileage. You are clearly way more experienced and talented than I could ever hope to be so take what I say with a grain of salt. That said, you seem to be bouncing around from decent to bad days with no truly good days for the last few weeks. Have you considered just shutting it down for a week or two and restarting?

James: Nice week. I will probably get beat-up by others but I personally wouldn’t see much value running 9:20 miles given your PRs. I understand that the goal is recover on your recovery days but minute miles are pretty darn slow. Your workouts look great.

AJ: Solid maintenance week. What are you plans for the summer? Are you going to hang around 50-70 miles a week or are you planning on building back up to higher volume?

Cocoon: Really well rounded week. Nice work on the stepping stones.

Seppo: Those are some serious wheels!

TL: Nice solid week. I like 800s. I feel like 400s let you off the hook mentally whereas 800s are long enough to force you to fight through some stuff while short enough to knock them out and then reset for the next one without a lot of mental fatigue.

Jewbacca: Solid maintenance week.

Pewow: Nice work on the Sunday race.

Xperirunner: Enjoy your time off.

BH: Really great volume. It is cool to see the varied TTs you are running. I bet it is a lot of fun. You seem like. You have crazy aerobic capabilities to be able to run 17:18 off of 68 400 speed.

Runnerchef: Really solid week. Given you are targeting a pretty brisk HM TT in the nearish future what is up with the lack long run?

Darkwave: Sorry to hear about the injury. Heal. up.

WorkingHarder: Nice week. I am not ashamed to say I hate bikes.

BHViking wrote:

M43, 5'10

With no real races on the horizon, I’m just focused on basebuilding. I’m using a Virtual Race Series hosted by our local running club as speed work.

Mon - 95 min @ 7:57

Tues - 105 min @ 8:42

Tues #2 - 30 min @ 9:02

Wed - 100 min @ 8:17

Wed #2 - 30 min @ 7:00

Thurs - 90 min @ 7:31

Fri - 90 min @ 7:26

Sat - 15 min warmup + 800m Virtual Race in 2:34 WTF?? Zero Top End… :(

Sat #2 - Long Run 2 Hours @ 7:15

Sun - 90 min @ 7:06

Weekly Totals

Miles: 100.1 Miles

Duration: 12:58

Elevation Gain: 1,184 ft (rained Mon - Thur so was on Treadmill)

Stryd Running Stress Score: 610

BH - the way you train really appeals to me...huge aerobic base. I think our profiles in terms of top-end vs. diesel are pretty comparable (I'd be lucky to run <2:30 for an 800m, but wouldn't be shocked to run 10:15-10:30 for a 2mi). Do you have a coach? Or do you use the Stryd to establish zones for the long stuff? I'm finding more and more that where I live, the GPS signal sucks (kinda the middle of nowhere and in deep woods), wrist HR is typically trash, and I'm rolling on feel for easy. I'd like to be sure I'm not pushing the envelope too much while I'm building volume.

Nice, I agree on 800s vs. 400s. It felt like work with some mental fortitude required but at the start of each one I felt undaunted.

Good to hear on the Fuelcell! It sounds like it might be the best trainer + super-shoe combo. I will say the Saucony Endorphin Pro is coming out and has gotten excellent reviews. It doesn't sound like it'd be as durable as the Fuelcell though.

I also heard it was more of true race shoe (pretty stiff etc.)

The TC Elite is something I could imagine running in every day honestly.

@highhoppingworm - Great to see another positive review about those shoes. I have heard good things from some other people, too, so I might have to snag a pair for my tempo runs. I do most of my speed work in some Vaporfly FKs that I got on discount, but would rather have something a little more stable and the Fuel Cell TC Elite seem like they could fit the bill.

As far as your comment, goes. Yes. Today was probably the straw that finally broke the camel's back - or in my case, finally made me believe that something is terribly wrong. I did my usual 2 mile warm up and realized my legs just didn't have the required pop to get in the prescribed workout, so I continued along for 3 more miles, just to get some in and after I drove home from the track, my legs completely seized up as I got out of the car. Like you all, I hate taking time off, but likely don't have another option if things are going to continue this way.

Getting in late here, as I have been very busy. The rehab and ramp-up is moving along well. Was able to do some decent, yet sore, running last week, and this week seems to be going well, with some of the soreness starting to fade. It is normal soreness from having done so little running in the past four weeks. Was glad to run four times...

M: off

T: 7.25 at 6:47 overall

W: 10.25 at 7:02 overall

T: off

F: 7.25 at 7:00 overall

Sat.: 10.5 at 7:04 overall

Sun.: off

35 miles

Legs were pretty darn heavy in the last three of the four runs. No complaints, though, as it feels normal (not injured). Will look to run five days this week.

All the best, guys and gals...

Time off from running doesnt have to be time off ... hit the bike and the weights.. After some weeks it becomes a new normal sort of

I used to write on here pretty regularly a couple years ago. Plantar fasciitis derailed me and hasn't ever gotten any better. Went to 4 different doctors and all said it wasn't that bad of a case, just prescribed cortisone shots and physical therapy. Neither has had a positive effect. Through my own fault, this has dragged out way too long and I've committed myself to getting healthy again in hopes that one day I'll be able to walk pain free and maybe even run one day lol. Anyways I figured why not start checking in here, where I've found a lot of motivation and information in the past, to keep my focus. Hope everyone is well!

Oh. I still do all of those other things, but once running goes away for me, it's rough seas.

I'm from the Bay Area.

RFF - good to see you back although sorry to hear about your struggles with PF. What's exactly been going on and why does the PT keep saying it's not a bad case when it's obviously taken you out of the game? What's the plan moving forward?

@highhoppingworm

yep totally agree with you - throughout March / April I averaged ~70MPW with a lot of long runs so I *think* the endurance is there - I have a 15 miler scheduled for saturday.

Working Harder wrote:

RFF - good to see you back although sorry to hear about your struggles with PF. What's exactly been going on and why does the PT keep saying it's not a bad case when it's obviously taken you out of the game? What's the plan moving forward?

I've taken 3 different x-rays and an MRI over the last 2 years or so and every Dr has said that it's at a mild state. No heel spurs and surgery was not a thought. I am currently waiting for orthotics and have recently been stretching, rolling and icing frequently during the day. I also couldn't stand the night splints so I started using some special PF sock splints which make it easier to sleep. Unfortunately work kills my feet being in work boots and on them all day. But I've ignored the situation for the most part and dealt with pain instead of taking care of it. I've probably only spent 4 months sporadically trying to solve the issue.

same here man

Hey highhoppingworm, is it called the NB FuelCell TC or the NB FuelCell TC Elite?

I can't find any NB shoe named FuelCell TC Elite but I was able to find the NB FuelCell TC.

The only reason I'm double checking is because some shoe companies have several shoes that sound similar but are actually different, like the Reebok Floatride Run Fast and the Reebok Floatride Run Fast Pro, which is a completely different shoe.

Stone - That's a pretty good week of running and a good plan for the future. I think a day off every week is helpful to keep things fresh and give yourself that time back to get errands or whatever done. I'll be interested to track your progress. I'm planning to alternate 70 mile weeks (doubles) with 55 mile ones (singles) starting in June.

Mrs. Stone - Nice easy week after that beastly performance.

HHW - Babies that sleep well are so nice. I'm such a better parent when my kids sleep well. Pretty solid week of running too. The LT session is damn strong. In terms of cracking 34, I think you have a strong shot at it. The LT session is a few seconds per mile slower than that pace and at least according to Daniels, threshold pace should be 5:41 for a 33:59 10k performance. So I think you're on the right track. Based on a later comment you made, you might just be a Solinsky type. Your race tactics may end up being different compared to the standard lightweight distance guy.

RunnerPhil - I don't necessarily agree. Since it would be a TT and not his ultimate race, the 100s still have a place. And the quality long run will help him grow his aerobic base faster. If he was in the last month or two of training I would agree. But race pace stuff would probably burn him out. If anything, I would recommend some 800s at 5:28 pace to get him used to the rhythm/feel. But only like 6 or so.

GT - Your Tuesday workout reminds me of the broken miles workout. But broken miles are usually run as 1200m/400m (0.75 mi/0.25 mi). Solid workouts though.

RRR - Oh man, I've cocked up sessions starting the first one too hard too many times to count. Good to know more experienced runners do the same too. If you keep gaining mass, you're gonna be absolutely jacked.

imagebearer - Nice workout on Thursday. Where the 15" speed similar to strides or are did you put more effort into those than you would for a stride? And definitely a solid Saturday run.

slo - I see those Deek's Quarters. I've been doing those for the past three weeks. I love them, but mine are slower and more similar to a higher quality tempo compared to my Tuesday one. If you are giving a webinar, can I cohost? I only run between 45 - 55 miles, but I'm still a fatso too.

rucker - How you manage to run and bike as much as you do with your 60+ hour work weeks is beyond me. Your discipline is nuts. And that's rough about your back. I've tweaked my back even now and then and I hated life so much until it loosened up/went away. Doubling is definitely easier on the body. Plus its supposed to help with weight loss I guess since you don't go as long between workouts. Which isn't a shot at you, just more of a general comment.

Smoove - Nice. Building that foundation, brick by brick.

GNR1 - Solid week of running. You have some real speed based on those 200s. And nice job on the TT.

Sub 6:00 - Stress is stress, unfortunately the body can't tell the difference between physical and psychological stress. But you got in a good week of running regardless. People are dumb. If you are far away from other people, they can shove it up their arse as far as I'm concerned.

RunnerSam - I like your Tuesday speed session. You really got after it. If you don't mind my asking, why the long run on Thursday? Are you on a 10 day training schedule?

LancRunner - That's a super strong Tuesday workout. I ran one 800m later summer and it was 2:37. You doing that as repeats just blows my mind. Sucks about the 10k though. I've been there when trying to TT a 5k and just calling it at 3k. Sucks bro

Rhodium - Yeah man! Get that speed. You're going to be ready to tear it up once races are ok-ed again.

Tyler_R_L - That's a rough week, mate. Hopefully the insurance isn't a c*ck (queue laugh track) and you can get it done without a huge cost to you. But you still got some miles in so its something.

JtA - Forgot to come back and post I did 10 miles at 8:50 average.

Hurricane - Glad to hear you're back on the mend. Regardless of age, injuries just suck. Hopefully everything is now on the right track.

AJ - Sucks about the TT. Every distance is rough to TT for different reasons. Still a decent bit of running for the week regardless though.

cocoon - You're coming into solid mile shape. And with about six weeks left, I'm excited to see what you can do.

Seppo - How could you not be planning to run the RRTT mile world championship? Although on second thought, yes, definitely don't do that. Damn fast Wednesday workout and sprint workout though.

SuicidePace - Tough break on the plantar. If I were you, I'd kick the mileage down a bit before shutting it down on your trip. I've got PF a couple times due to having flat feet and lower mileage helps it bugger off while still letting me run.

THOUGHTS - I like that workout. I think I'm going to steal it to replicate at some point. Also, I don't doubt you struggled in the heat. Humidity is the goddamn worst and NY seems to get wet heat instead of dry. Give be 100/0 over 85/85 any day.

jewbacca - I feel that so much. I've missed so many miles from hitting snooze and going back to sleep. Damn you past James. How you can drink Mtn. Dew is beyond me. I can easily put down 4 L of Coke. But a single can of Dew is enough for me.

pewow - What's a postal competition? Nice week overall though.

xperirunner - Nice workout and progression on those 400s. Makes sense. Running with no goal sucks. Hopefully things will be up and running by fall/winter.

johnfromSJ - Glad to meet you and I hope your leg cooperates. Tissue stuff sucks.

BHViking - I originally read "basebuilding" and "bodybuilding" and was thoroughly confused for a second. 2:34 for a virtual 800 is pretty good though. Mid distance races hurt bad and without a physical competitor, that only doubles it.

runnerchef - Good week of training. I think you have a good shot at a sub 1:16

darkwave - That sucks. Things just tweaking when you don't know why is the worst because you can't even pinpoint what happened/what you did. Hopefully your chiro can help sort you out and that your foot starts to calm down soon.

Working Harder - You got in some solid work. Especially the 400s on the road. I can never judge those right. You're a nice guy for waiting with her. I would have left her by the side of the road after crashing into me and for wearing inadequate footwear.

HHW - I get what you mean. After my run yesterday where I averaged 9:23 and a 132 HR, I'll lower it. But right now I estimate I'm in 19 - 20 minute 5k shape, the 9:20s are on the slower end. Starting this week it will probably be closer to 9 or slightly below. Most runs now finish around 8:50 pace. I'm working on letting them come to me.

OR - Glad to see you on the mend. Hopefully this week is another step in that direction.

JTA - Thanks very much. I have a good feeling about things now.

JamesTheAmateur wrote:rucker - How you manage to run and bike as much as you do with your 60+ hour work weeks is beyond me. Your discipline is nuts. And that's rough about your back. I've tweaked my back even now and then and I hated life so much until it loosened up/went away. Doubling is definitely easier on the body. Plus its supposed to help with weight loss I guess since you don't go as long between workouts. Which isn't a shot at you, just more of a general comment.

JTA - Appreciate the kind words. I actually need to learn from a lot of the folks in the thread and listen to my body more at times, but truth is if I don't get out and move I'm usually pretty miserable. When work is full throttle it's nice to feel like I controlled part of my day! And I noticed the same thing about doubles, even just shuffling for 20min in the morning has an effect it seems.

Also amazing to me how time effective running is, running 70mi took 4-8h less than a "low-volume, high quality" triathlon/multisport week, and I really loved having a little more free time!