(Road Racing and) Time Trialing and Training Thread - Week Ending 5/17/20

Male, 42, 5’11”, 170 lbs

PRs: 16:43 (2019) 1:17:24 (2019), 2:47:00 (2018)

Next Race: Apparently a July 4th mile TT per RRR’s orders. Maybe a 400m TT before that?

All training effort-based. No access to any GPS data other than distance until after the run.

M - 2 miles / 2 miles

T - 4 miles

W - 5 miles / 3 miles

Th - 6 miles

F - Rest

Sa - 8 miles

Su - 6 miles / 4 miles (planned)

Weekly Total: 40 miles

YTD total: 980 miles

Good amount of gentle running after last weekend’s marathon time trial with Mrs. Stone.

With no serious races on the docket anytime soon, I am going to try to practice what I preach and rebuild from the ground up.

I am going to start getting in 9 runs a week, with three easy doubles, a rest day, two lighter quality days, and a (medium) long run. Can see myself comfortably getting in 75-80 miles a week eventually this way on 6 days of running, which I think will strike a better balance across training and hopefully prevent any overuse injuries from cropping up.

If I can get in 75-80 miles a week over a 6 to 8 month period, I’ll be more prepared for bigger races next year than by meteorically ascending and subsequently crashing every few months.

Hope everyone else had a great week.

Mrs. Stone’s week:

Female, 44, 5’6”

PRs: 21:20 (2016, 2019), 1:36:43 (2019), 3:28:24 (2019)

Currently scheduled races; Boston Marathon (9/14/20), NYC Marathon (11/1/20)

All training effort-based. No access to any GPS data other than distance until after the run.

M - Rest

T - 4 miles

W - 5 miles

Th - Rest

F - 4 miles

Sa - 8 miles

Su - 6 miles

Weekly Total: 27 miles

YTD Miles: 960 miles

Recovery after last weekend’s marathon TT. Will safely get volume back up to 45-50 miles in the next couple weeks before reintroducing any formal workouts.

35/M/6’2”/181 lbs

Goal Races: 10k TT 6/10, 1 mile TT 7/4, 10k &/or 5K TT sometime in September, Mohawk Hudson HM 10/11

PRs: 5k - 16:15, HM - 1:16:40, M - 3:14:22

Solid week for me. Increased volume significantly and maintained some decent quality. New baby sleeps really well (so far) which allowed me to pretty much just keep my standard schedule. Will be interesting to see how things go working next week.

M - 10 @ 7:10

T - 11 total. 4 up, 4 LT @ 5:33/5:35/5:33/5:28, 3 down. Felt very good. LT portion was on slightly downhill grade. GAP was 5:36 average.

W - 12 @ 7:42

Th - 9 total. 7 @ 7:20. 16x100 @ 15-16 (I think) on trail, 1 down.

Fr - 8 @ 7:37

Sa - 15 total. 3 up, 3 x stepping stone, 3 down. Goal was 6:50/6:20/5:50. Ended up at 6:46/6:16/5:46,6:46/6:16/5:51, 6:51/6:17/5:44. This was difficult. I could have done one more set but it would have put me in a bad place.

Su - 8 @ 7:41

Total: 73

Question: I would really like to crack 34 in this 10k TT in June. On a scale from no chance in hell to I would have to severely underperform not to accomplish this how reasonable is this goal do you guys think?

Exact same 5k PR here, and recently TT'ed a 10k on track in 34:09. I'm also same height, but around 20 lbs lighter (and not at my ideal low race weight), so that's definitely something you might wanna look into.

You should be there or pretty close to it. I don't think that the 16x100 and "quality long run" are great workouts for the 10k, I'd rather have you focus on lots of 1k and mile repeats around race pace or slightly slower and also some longer 6-8 mile tempos around 6 min pace.

Couch to 5k, week 5

M - off, alarm didn't wake me

T - 11mi including 3x(1600m, 90s rest, 300m, 4min rest) in (5:13,0:51) (5:11, 0:51) (5:12, 0:50).

The homestretch of that 300 sucks.

W - 7mi

T - 7.9mi 

F - 7.7mi including 2mi/1mi 'go' in (5:53, 5:58, 5:25). 

Started in the sort of downpour that makes you question your sanity, but still disappointed with how this one shook out.

S - 6mi

S - 9.1mi including 1600m/1200m/800m/400m with equal time rest in (5:10, 3:49, 2:28, 67)

The homestretch of that 400 sucks. 

Total - almost 49miles

RRR 6ft 181 37yo

Trying to run an okay firecracker mile TT

“A good plan violently executed right now is far better than a perfect plan executed next week.“ Patton

30 miles ran in 5 days

Q1 8x200 90s rest. 35.2-36.1-35.4-36.5-35.6-35.6-35.6-34.8

Q2 3x1000 2mins rest 3:32-3:35-3:36 + 6 hard strides (fudged it up was supposed to be 5x1000 at CVish and got out to fast in the full sun and broke down so had to bag it. Being a bigger guy now the sun is doubly deadly. Was lazy and didn’t get up at 5:30)

4 x Lifting sessions, Really solid work some of the best lifting have done to this point. Getting strong, gaining to much mass but I don’t care!

Some light biking. Weather was crap all week so not much biking. 2 ish hours.

Another week of getting some work in and staying night and healthy. Those fuel cell rebels are awesome for faster stuff on the track. Highly stable around the curves and really make me get up on that forefoot when running faster stuff. Don’t beat my legs up like the streaks did w the better Cush. Need to get on some quarters soon w the TT 7 weeks out.

Onwards and upwards boys and girls.

M33.

2020 TTs - 2mi 11:22 (Apr), HM 1:27:27 (Mar)

M: 7.8 (60') with short intervals

-- 12x (40" @ 5:40, 40" jog)

T: 7.5 (63') recovery

W: 7.5 (59') easy with 8x strides

R: 8.6 (63') 4mi tempo progression followed by 4x (15" speed, 45" jog)

- tempo miles were 6:37, 6:26, 6:17, 6:07

F: 7.6 (60')

S: 13 (92') - progression

- First 6mi were 7:52 down to 7:09, last 7 were 6:58 down to 6:15.

U: 7.5 (61')

Total: 59.5 mi

Saturday's progression run felt great. If this is what outsiderunner's flyers feel like I can see why he loves them!

Stone, how is your knee? IIRC you had some pain, took some time off, then ran 26.3 with the wife. Is your knee holding up fine afterward?

HHW - awesome mileage and workouts. Those 4 LT miles on Tuesday and stepping stones on Saturday were very impressive. You run so early in the morning btw! What time do you go to sleep?

GT - That 300m on the 3x(1600m, 300m) sounds hard. Also nice workout Saturday, that looks hard too.

Sleep at 8:30-9:30, wake up at 3:45-4:15. I know this sounds pathetic for an adult male but it works for me.

Beasts, greetings.

HHW- i think you could break 34. you’re in sub 16 shape for an actual 5k race in my opinion. i think the 180 turn in your 5k tt slows it down for a couple reasons- 1. Losing momentum. 2. Garmins in my experience tend to read slow for u-turns. So I think you ran a bit over 5k. I mean you just ran a 4 mile tempo low 5:30s, 5:28 shouldn’t be that big of a deal. I did a 10k time trial in March in 34:00... it sucked. But I don’t think I was in 16:15 shape then and you seem to be strong at time trialing. On the other hand, there seems to be a drop off as the distance increases...the stepping stones and half marathon tt to me are not on the same level as that 5k time trial.

GT- couple of beastly throw downs in there. you are probably going to destroy me in this virtual sub 16 quest, and with half the mileage

im never particularly enthusiastic about my own training, but this was one of the best weeks that I’ve had. nothing blazing, but i hit the paces that i felt right. starting to get a little bit of fitness, just need to go Meb style with the nutrition and diet. tune in to my upcoming webinar for exclusive tips on staying fat while running high mileage.

*m- AM- 8 x 400, avg 70, 2’ recovery. PM- 5

t- 10/5

*w- AM- Deek’s Quarters, 4800m in 16:08, continuous, alternating 200s in :44-45 and 400s in 76 PM- 5

*th- 14 steady @6:12 pace

f- 8.5/6

s- 11/5.5

*su AM- 2 x 1600, 2 x 1200, 2 x 1k. (5:14, 5:12, 3:53, 3:55, 3:13, 3:10). 3:30, 3’ and 2:30 rec. PM- 5

110

As a coach, I have to respectfully disagree with you, Phil. I have been following HHW’s training since he started posting here and I have to say what he is doing of late is fantastic “spectrum” training from 1 mile up to HM. He has recently performed three time trials solo (4:4x, 16:15, 1:16:40) at ridiculously early morning hours.

His training has also touched on a variety of speed (economy), LT, and MP/steady paces. He has demonstrated that he is primarily a fast twitch runner - which means sessions like Stepping Stones are a huge boost to his aerobic endurance.

Heck, he just ran a 4 mile tempo on Tuesday at 5:32/5:33 average. He is only needing to go 2.2 miles farther at :05-:06/mile faster to crack 34:00.

His specific work is fine. I would strongly recommend he keeps the blend of paces that he has been incorporating. As far as his size, he’s fine. Again, he is highly fast twitch and therefore more muscular than the average long distance runner. But again he’s demonstrated consistently that he is competing at a strong weight for him.

Worm - as far as your question, you have shown you are an exceptionally strong time trialer. I think cracking 34:00 is very reasonable (but not a gimme) in a TT setting. In an actual race with great competition and conditions, you are probably closer to 33:20-33:30.

imagebearer wrote:

Stone, how is your knee? IIRC you had some pain, took some time off, then ran 26.3 with the wife. Is your knee holding up fine afterward?

It’s really strange. It’s almost as if running that TT with Mrs. Stone completely knocked all of the pains and aches out of my body. I haven’t physically/mechanically felt this good since February. Now it’s just a matter of training myself aerobically back into the same shape I was then.

Thanks for the comments guys. A few responses...

1) I suspect I am a good TT’er because I have very limited racing experience. In short, I can still get my adrenaline up to a reasonable extent. I think these TT efforts may be a bit weaker than a race effort but probably not by as much as the rest of you.

2) Phil, I’m using the next two months or so to just focus on overall fitness with no real specificity. I really want to knock a HM out of the park in the fall so really just want to lay a foundation until I start a real plan in July. I am running the 10k TT more as a capstone to my 1 year anniversary as a distance runner. That said, I may toss in a 5-6xmile workout in early June.

3) I definitely could lose 10 pounds and plan to over the summer. Getting down to 160 or below is just not going to happen for me. Hell, I started off at 240-250 this time last year and still didn’t look morbidly obese. I am just kind of a larger person.

I kind of figured I was right on the cusp. Should help make it a bit more exciting.

Had an interesting week. Health-wise, screwed up my back doing some work outside, so I've been struggling a bit with a lot of tightness in my left lower back/glute/hamstring etc. It loosens up a bit with some light jogging, but I couldn't bike due to the seated position. That said, I got in a great week of easy base mileage on trails and hilly country roads. Mostly jogging, usually ~100ft climbed for every mile. Also worked 10h/day M-F, 11 on Saturday and it's looking like another 10 today.

M, 22, 5'8/162/Only recent PR: 1:21:10 hilly HM in March

Goals: TBD, the big one is JFK 50 in November hopefully. Prior to that, <1:20 for a half (??), <60min for a 10mi

M - PM 7.23

T - AM 7.1 / PM 3.1

W - AM 2.23 / PM 10.12 (Morning was a super easy shuffle @ 9-9.5/mi to loosen my back)

TH - AM 2.26 / PM 10.06 (Same deal)

F - AM 8.06 / PM 3.1

S - AM 8.05

S - AM 7.06 / Might run again, we'll see how today goes work-wise

Total: 68.3 (might get another 4-6 in tonight)/9h20m

A lot of trail time, my GPS mileage is anything but accurate on trails in deep woods. Probably closer to 71-72mi right now, but who cares! I also found it much easier to run more when I ran twice instead of a longer single, when I'm not biking 150-200mi, and when I keep one of the runs so easy I can breathe through my nose.

Also got in 200-300 pushups/day throughout the day, 25-30 pullups/day, and 3x45min dedicated strength sessions (upper body, posterior chain, core). Still felt like I hardly trained relative to when I'm on my bike a lot.

I agree with all of what you said. Obviously he is running fantastic despite his age/BMI so what he has been doing was working for him. He is definitely very strong aerobically.

For the weight, one of the heaviest runner that did well was Solinsky, at 6'1" and 165 lbs, a BMI of 21.8. Worm is over 23, and he would need 170 lbs to get a similar BMI.

Steve Way was heavily overweight when he started running in his 30s, but got incredibly lean. Like Worm, he was over 100 kg / 220 lbs when he started, but he got very skinny and ran a 2:15 marathon as 40-year old. He did ran very high mileage tho and focused primarily on the longer distances. Way was very slow-twitch tho, only 14:41 5k and 8:39 3k despite his 2:15 marathon.

Good week for me.

M - 6.5 miles easy

Tu - 4 mile progression run (7:08, 6:27, 6:02, 5:48) plus 2 mile cool down

W - 10.5 easy

Th - off

F - 6 easy

Sa - 6 easy

Su - TBD

35 miles

M35, 6’-1, 160

PB / 2020:

Mile 4:06 / NT

5k 14:32 / 15:38(TT)

10k 31:30 / 32:36(TT)

Half 1:08:31 / NT

Full 2:32:50 / NT

Upcoming Races:

5/30 1 Mile TT

M: easy + strides, 8M

T: speed, 4x400 (68avg), 4x200 (31avg) w 400 jogs, 11M

W: easy, 9M

T: easy, 8M

F: easy + strides, 6M

S: off, —

S: 2 Mile TT, 9:31 (road), 10M

5/17 Total 52 (6d)

5/10 Total 62 (6d), LR=16

5/03 Total 56 (6d), 4M TT 20:30 (road)

4/26 Total 60 (6d), LR=15

4/19 Total 56 (6d), 5k TT 15:38 (road)

4/12 Total 62 (6d), LR=16

4/05 Total 57 (6d), 10k TT 32:36 (road)

3/29 Total 62 (6d), LR=15

3/22 Total 62 (6d), LR=16

3/15 Total 60 (6d), LR=16

3/08 Total 62 (6d), LR=15

3/01 Total 52 (6d), 10k 32:40 (road)

2/23 Total 62 (6d), LR=18

2/16 Total 67 (6d), LR=17

2/09 Total 62 (6d), LR=15

2/02 Total 34 (4d) *sick

1/26 Total 55 (6d), LR=16

1/19 Total 52 (6d), LR=13

1/12 Total 60 (6d), LR=16

1/05 Total 62 (6d), LR=14

2020 Totals: 1,153 miles (118 days)

M36, 5’10”, about 160

Road bests | 2020

5k - 15:20 (2006) | ∅

10k - 31:15 (2008) | ∅

10M - 51:52 (2009) | ∅

Half - 1:09:01 (2009) | 1:11:33 (A1A)

Full - 2:25:14 (2019) | ∅

Upcoming:

7/4 - RRTT Firecracker Challenge

Mo: AM - 5 @ 6:03; PM - 6 @ 6:35

Tu: AM - 5 @ 6:47; PM - 6 @ 6:04

We: AM - 8 @ 6:40; PM - 5 @ 6:38

Th: AM - 8 @ 7:46; PM - 5 @ 7:27

Fr: 10 @ 7:23

Sa: 8 @ 7:31

Su: 4 jog

Total: 70 miles

Work has been crazy, but oddly conducive to doubles. By Thursday afternoon I actually was shaking like the Waco Kid, but I’ll chalk that up mostly to lack of sleep, stress, and overall fatigue. If I couldn’t run, I’d have been a total mess. Nice to relax this weekend, and next week should be better.

Today was supposed to be my “neighborhood championship” 10k. Wore the 2018 t-shirt and ran part of the course. Cloudy and breezy mid-60s sure beats what we had the last two years (78 + 70 and sunny).

Finally had someone yell at me from his porch for running without a mask. It’s not hard to stay far enough away from people on my routes, so I haven’t been. (For what it’s worth, yelling without a mask seems to be riskier behavior.)

highhoppingworm wrote:

Question: I would really like to crack 34 in this 10k TT in June. On a scale from no chance in hell to I would have to severely underperform not to accomplish this how reasonable is this goal do you guys think?

I think it’s a good goal, and maybe slightly conservative. Better that way, to maybe be a little cautious and find out you have a lot left in the last mile, than to fall apart.

I like the well-rounded approach you’re taking. (Though Phil’s suggestions are good 10k-specific workouts.) You’re still pretty new in a sense, improving quickly, and have a different physical make-up than most of us distance runners. For what it’s worth, when I set my my 1500m PR just after the end of 12th grade, my BMI was just over 25. (Paul McMullin, a really big dude, won that race—or maybe it was the year before.)

He was indeed stacked for a 3:33 guy.