intheknowl wrote:
http://www.runnersworld.com/sites/default/files/la.pngHe didn't do anything that absurd.
Clearly it was an absurd pace for him, based on the fact that he couldn't break 5:15 after the seventh mile of the race. He was basically running at OT B-standard pace at mile 8, and then he couldn't even hold that. I'm sorry, but that's not smart running.
RyanDNFHall wrote:
Obviously Hall wasn't going to start running bad as soon as he left Mahon. The years of consistent hard work gained from training under Mahon stuck with him for another while. He left in the fall of 2010, ran 2:04 @ Boston because he still had his incredible base under him. Then after that things slowly started going downhill. Sure, he made the Olympic Team in 2012, but got dropped by Meb @ the end. Considering how strongly he finished the trials in 08, he should have easily won in 2012 as well.
You mean like Shorter did in 1980? Or Sandoval did in 1984? Or Pfitzinger did in 1988? Or Conover did in 1992? Or Spence did in 1996? Or Kempainen did in 2000? Or de Haven did in 2004? Or Culpepper did in 2008? Hall's second-place in the 2012 trials was the best result by a defending marathon trials winner since Frank Shorter's 1976 trials performance. And his stretch of six straight years as the first- or second-ranked U.S. marathoner (first four years, second two years) is the longest in the history of Track & Field News rankings.
Your comments about Hall's marathon performances after he left Mahon are silly. I don't doubt for a moment that Mahon did a great job of coaching Hall. But Hall's performances actually improved after he left Mahon. In fact, his performances at Boston and Chicago in 2011 were his best in over three years.
Completely agree with you on that one.
His mile splits were consistently getting slower and when the American pack passed him, he didn't even attempt to stay with them. Going out @ 4:40 then slowing down to 5:15s and then 5:20s and eventually a 5:46. Look @ how smart Jared Ward raced. From the back, hunting guys down and STILL ran under 2:13 despite the conservative start.
Anyone can go out @ a suicide pace with the leaders and hang on. The question is, can you hang and run well, or are you gonna get dropped with 20miles left in the race and start running 1min/mile slower than your first mile?
RyanDNFHall wrote:
Completely agree with you on that one.
His mile splits were consistently getting slower and when the American pack passed him, he didn't even attempt to stay with them. Going out @ 4:40 then slowing down to 5:15s and then 5:20s and eventually a 5:46. Look @ how smart Jared Ward raced. From the back, hunting guys down and STILL ran under 2:13 despite the conservative start.
Anyone can go out @ a suicide pace with the leaders and hang on. The question is, can you hang and run well, or are you gonna get dropped with 20miles left in the race and start running 1min/mile slower than your first mile?
this points to a mental problem rather than physical - while Hall may not be the smartest tool in the shed...a guy with his kind of experience just has to know roughly what kind of shape he is in. I bet he had some really good workouts that told him he could run fast. So we went with it.
but in the race something went wrong and he gave up.
Point is, I can't believe that he knew he was in terrible shape and went out that fast - something broke when connecting his training and racing. Could be his head, could be just a bad luck something went wrong thing, like a cramp or injury.
113 wrote:
intheknowl wrote:http://www.runnersworld.com/sites/default/files/la.pngHe didn't do anything that absurd.
Clearly it was an absurd pace for him, based on the fact that he couldn't break 5:15 after the seventh mile of the race. He was basically running at OT B-standard pace at mile 8, and then he couldn't even hold that. I'm sorry, but that's not smart running.
Exactly. Just because the course is downhill in the first few miles does not justify Ryan's ridiculous early splits. It seems the only way he knows how to run is from the front. That works in 2011 Boston with a massive tailwind after you've come off years of solid training with Mahon but it doesn't work in hot LA when you have not run a decent race in 3 years. Ryan is a professional runner with years of experience, such a basic tactical mistake is baffling. Unless this is part of some bigger plan and he actually is planning on running Boston next month so he can have a real life Lazarus moment, which I doubt. Heck, even a 2:15 would be a great result for him right now. I hope Ryan pulls it together and gets some psychotherapy and real coaching.
SouthernFriedRealist wrote:
I think he can come back and make the Olympic team if he would be smart about it and come to the realization that he's not a world class marathoner anymore.
He's not going to be 3-4 years removed from an elite marathon race and then knock it out of the park in hot weather. He should have stuck with the American pack and mad a run at finishing in the top 5.
I'm not willing to say he's 100% done but agree with you. I think he can make the team in 2016. The race will be tactical and you just gotta get top 3. He's a victim of his own success. When you run 2:04 and don't come close to winning, you try crazy things. He's had so much success the only thing he wants is a major win which isn't going to happen
If anything, this race (among others) shows that he races carelessly. It might be he is a victim of his own success (always wanting to do something super special), but I hope that he becomes a bit more realistic. If he was more realistic about his fitness, a 1:06/1:07 =2:13 race for second place for US would have been a good race...but it seems like with his pace/tactics he would have viewed that as a failure since he went out with the leaders. I also agree he needs to get out and race more. He doesn't have to race savagely, but doing some more B races and possibly some A races that are not a marathon would be good for him. He is certainly not done, but if he keeps racing this way he won't be a happy runner that is for sure.
rojo wrote:
SouthernFriedRealist wrote:I think he can come back and make the Olympic team if he would be smart about it and come to the realization that he's not a world class marathoner anymore.
He's not going to be 3-4 years removed from an elite marathon race and then knock it out of the park in hot weather. He should have stuck with the American pack and mad a run at finishing in the top 5.
I'm not willing to say he's 100% done but agree with you. I think he can make the team in 2016. The race will be tactical and you just gotta get top 3. He's a victim of his own success. When you run 2:04 and don't come close to winning, you try crazy things. He's had so much success the only thing he wants is a major win which isn't going to happen
People who worship Meb over Hall, forget that Meb was basically done 2006-2008. He had a DNF in London, a DNS in London, He also ran in the 2:20 and 2:15 . I know he was injured in the '08 trials, but some of this was way before then.
Wu Ming wrote:
Not that it will make any difference, but we might as well include his actual marathon career. In a roughly 5 year period from April 2007 to January 2012, in his first 10 marathon starts, Hall did this:
2007 London 2:08:24 (7th); NYC USOT 2:09:02 (1st)
2008 London 2:06:17 (5th); Beijing OG 2:12:33 (10th)
2009 Boston 2:09:40 (3rd); NYC 2:10:36 (4th)
2010 Boston 2:08:41 (4th)
2011 Boston 2:04:58 (4th); Chicago 2:08:04 (5th)
2012 Houston USOT 2:09:30 (2nd)
= 2:08:46.5 average. Eight top-5 finishes.
Whether one likes him or not (for whatever reason(s)), that is excellent running, and a marathon career that most runners would be happy to have.
Particularly if he's an American. In that period of time, US runners ran under 2:10 17 times. Eight of those times were run by Hall. US runners have only dipped under 2:09 16 times *ever*. Hall and KK did it five times each. No one else has managed more than one.
Ritz missed on the 2012 Oly marathon, then came back and made the 10K team.
Ritz always came back to his roots (track & x-c) to RE-ENERGIZE.
That is why Ritz will make his 4th Oly team.
Ritz = Shorter. Ryan = Rodgers.
"The Philosophy of Ryan Hall"
http://www.newyorker.com/news/sporting-scene/the-philosophy-of-ryan-hall?intcid=mod-latest
interview type article just before Los Angeles.
well there's this wrote:
"The Philosophy of Ryan Hall"
http://www.newyorker.com/news/sporting-scene/the-philosophy-of-ryan-hall?intcid=mod-latestinterview type article just before Los Angeles.
Interviewed before the race, but written after. Letsrun-er quoted near end, so authoritatively...
And according to Hall's manager: “He says he needs to freshen up a bit and get back on the horse. Life is about how hard you get hit and keep moving forward.”
shaggy blond wrote:
well there's this wrote:"The Philosophy of Ryan Hall"
http://www.newyorker.com/news/sporting-scene/the-philosophy-of-ryan-hall?intcid=mod-latestinterview type article just before Los Angeles.
Interviewed before the race, but written after. Letsrun-er quoted near end, so authoritatively...
And according to Hall's manager: “He says he needs to freshen up a bit and get back on the horse. Life is about how hard you get hit and keep moving forward.”
Not really. It may well be about keeping forward progress. But there doesn't seem to be much sense in getting hit any harder than necessary (if at all).
MeHereYouWhere?! wrote:
Maybe he just wanted to get to church on time since it is a Sunday. Ironically there are 4 churces within 3 blocks of wherehe dropped.
I found this really funny XD however I have to ask, did you have to look it up online just to make that joke? How else would you know there were all those churches around?
MeHereYouWhere?! wrote:
Maybe he just wanted to get to church on time since it is a Sunday. Ironically there are 4 churces within 3 blocks of wherehe dropped.
Spaghettimonster wrote:
I found this really funny XD however I have to ask, did you have to look it up online just to make that joke? How else would you know there were all those churches around?
I had no idea. I just made up a random number as part of the joke. I kind of figured, well, LA is a huge city and in large cities, there are always a ton of churches. If it really is 4 churches within 3 blocks then that is pretty damn funny.
JUST PERHAPS the road mile the week after Boston 11 was Hall's downfall.
My experience: In 1991 I ran Boston, jogged a bit in the days that followed, felt recovered and came back 2 weeks later with a 1,500. It did not go out fast, maybe 63, but my body was just not ready to run hard. At 700m it was over as the left side of my lower body tightened up. It was a struggle the next few years to rehab while attempting to train at the same paces that were once easy. Only time off and strength training fixed my issues- and my left leg still doesn't fire as quickly as the right.
JUST MAYBE his body wasn't recovered and ready to run fast in that road race. I can't recall the details but it seems he went out at the front but faded to a 4:44 or something? Are the lingering injuries a result? It could be that his body shut down that day as it was never given the chance to recover from the 2:04 and now it is protecting itself from additional damage.
Could Hall be a real word example of Nokes Central Governor Theory?
http://www.newyorker.com/news/sporting-scene/the-philosophy-of-ryan-hall?mbid=social_facebooklapras wrote:
He's done. He'll never be competitive in the sport again.
Nicely done. Quoted in the NewYorker even.
At 32, he could easily be past his prime.
I've said it before, I'll say it again.
Ryan Hall's 2:04 was a curse. He truly believed he could reproduce this result in other Marathons and has trained like a 2:04 Marathoner.
But when you're a 2:06 high Marathon and train like a 2:04 Marathoner, you get injured.
His 2:04 in Boston was (adjusted for the wind) worth 2:08. A solid performance but nothing special.
Sam with Davila/Linden.
Time for he and Sarah to go on a long pilgrimage and take up fishing.
