Ryan Hall DNFs at LA. Will he ever run a good marathon again?

Isn't his only other DNF the 2012 Olympic Marathon?

With that being said, he may need a more hands on/stronger coach than Jack Daniels. Maybe Asics can pay Ron Mann to move back to Flagstaff to get him in gear. I believe Ron is a born again type -- so that might also help.

Mahon left MTC not long after Hall did and so did almost all the world class runners. He might have still been in a decent situation, but it was not the same anymore. Most Marathoners have about 5 world class races in them and can only stay at the top 3-4 years. A few exceed that and Hall has. But then the injury cycle often starts and is very difficult to break. How do you get healthy when 120mi weeks are a required part of training?He does seem to make a lot of poor tactical decisions in races. Counter that with Meb who has a much slower PR, but rarely makes a tactical mistake. Most would agree that Meb has the much more desirable career. Hall needs to learn to be patient and race smarter, not relying so much on his astounding talent. IMHO One thing that contributed to his early success at the Half and Marathon is how fast he was with a 13:15 5k. He is VERY far away from that now. He may not be doing everything right to get back to world class, but he is trying and I wish him luck.

Tapia shows it wrote:

Tapia is showing Ryan what could have been if he stayed with mammoth club, where Tapia is now.

Ackley wrote:

Isn't his only other DNF the 2012 Olympic Marathon?

With that being said, he may need a more hands on/stronger coach than Jack Daniels. Maybe Asics can pay Ron Mann to move back to Flagstaff to get him in gear. I believe Ron is a born again type -- so that might also help.

Yes, that's his only other marathon DNF. Three marathon DNS (NYC 2012 and 2013, Boston 2013). In the last year or two, he also dropped out of a low-key half in California and Peachtree, IIRC.

This guy needs to get to sea level and fine tune his skill. He spends too much time at altitude running on effort. In turn he is never realistic with where his fitness is.

Few thoughts.

Frank Shorter once stated you only have four really good marathons in you over the course of your career. That said Hall is most likely on the down side of his career.

Once you start A DNF habit it becomes increasingly harder to finish a race when you are going through a rough patch.

I really don/t see ASICs sticking with him much longer as he has done very little the last few years and just DNFed in front of the corporate Prez in their marquee sponsorship event in America.

Once you are in an injury cycle it is very difficult to return to prior level. DeCastella, Shorter, Seko and Khanouchi are great examples. None were remotely close to previous levels... Mahon had his runners prehab in an effort to avoid injuries, too bad Hall did not stick with him/

He's been almost perpetually injured since 2012. That's 3 years now. It may all stem from that original hamstring injury. He may not have rehabbed that properly. It's hard to do. It's probably throwing his stride off causing other injuries and also slowing him down. Performing at a high level in the marathon requires walking a razor thin line between training hard enough and too hard. Hall walked that line well for several years. Better runners even than he have fallen off of it permanently after less time.

I find his whole God thing to be pretty obnoxious, but I've always rooted for him as a runner. Other than Rupp, and, arguably, Meb, we haven't had nor will we have any American who can go toe-to-toe with the top Kenyans.

To answer the OPs question, I say 'no'. At least if you define 'good' to be sub 2:09. Sadly, we won't see him run that fast ever again. I still think he could get in the top 10 again at Boston or some other major. He'll have to get his body straightened out and come to terms with going out slowly and picking off the front pack's road kill at the end of the race.

Coach H wrote:

Don't bash the man who is the American record holder in the half and full.

Hall does not have the AR in the marathon. Khalid Khannouchi ran 2:05:38 in London '02. Hall's 2:04 at Boston '11 was not on a recognizable course.

Hall's 1/2 marathon AR stands at 59:43 only because Terry Cotton's 59:41 was not on a recognizable course.

So- he has run quicker than the marathon record he does not have but slower than the 1/2 record he does hold.

48+9 wrote:

Few thoughts.

Frank Shorter once stated you only have four really good marathons in you over the course of your career. That said Hall is most likely on the down side of his career./

I think you can have more than 4 good marathons. But as far as really good marathons, I'll take Frank at his word. Now to look at Ryan's really good marathons:

2007 London debut(AR for a debut 2:08:24), 2007 Olympic Trials(2:09:02 Olympic Trials Record), 2008 London(2:06:17, record eligible PR), 2011 Boston (2:04:58)

Now his just marathons that were just good:

2008 Olympic Marathon (10th), 2009 Boston/NYC (3rd/4th), 2010 Boston (4th), 2011 Chicago (5th in 2:08:04), 2012 Olympic Trials (2nd)

By the Frank Shorter rule he may have some good marathons but no really good marathons left in him. At this point good would be sub 2:10?

After seeing him set the half marathon record in Houston I was a huge fan. He was awesome and I keep rooting for him, but after this latest DNF I'm wavering in my support. One more DNF would put the nail in the coffin for me. I'm still hoping it happens for him but it's becoming more and more unlikely.

I can't find find a replay of the incident (wish I could see it, USATF TV looks like they archive some stuff... does anyone know if the bib incident was on the LA tv feed or the USATF TV feed?Someone in LA has to have DVRd the thing. I did find this on twitteranother disapointment from Ryan Hall @lamarathon... when does it ever get better? pic.twitter.com/lGjH1gqVg2— Justin Fritz (@JFritzius) March 15, 2015

frogs wrote:

Is there a highlights reel that shows him dropping out anywhere? I watched the whole thing on the live feed but I want to see him tear off his bib and hurl it to the ground like a three-year-old again.

And again.

And again.

I'd also like to see if he mouths a blasphemy or not.

I know this isn't football but there must be a replay somewhere.

That's what is not being mentioned enough in this thread. He didn't just dnf. He pulled up and pitched a little fit AS SOON AS HE WAS PASSED BY ANOTHER AMERICAN.

I checked FB to see what was there.... here's his bio.

American Record Holder in Half Marathon

Fastest US Marathoner in History 2:04:58

Hope I can inspire you along your running journey with things I've learned...

He's been hurt, but not so injured that he hasn't been able to run for long stretches of time. Why the distinction? Because instead of losing all kinds of fitness but resting to ultimate get better and comeback with fresh legs and motivation (see Meb after 2007 Trials), he's been on the part-time rollercoaster which ultimately crushes you, mentally and physically.

As someone else suggested, could his religious belief create hubris? I don't think that's the right way to look at it - he's a 2:06 marathoner, who's made two Olympic teams, and had the self-belief to take it to the field in London and Boston. The moment he doubts the ability to make his way back to that level is the moment he retires, whether officially or unofficially. He draws strength from his religion. Yes, he sounds like a religious nutjob, but he's spent most of his life in the mountains of California or training as a monk.

Find a group to run with, a coach to challenge you, and a place you are comfortable. Maybe only Mammoth with the Mahon group was the perfect blend for him. Some folks can't do it everywhere.

$0.02

agc5k wrote:

[quote]48+9 wrote:

Few thoughts.

By the Frank Shorter rule he may have some good marathons but no really good marathons left in him. At this point good would be sub 2:10?

You will get no argument from me Ryan Hall has had a fine career one that 99.9999....... % of people would love to have achieved.

You may be right a great marathon for him would be sub 2: 10 unfortunately I don't know if that is ever going to happen once the slide starts it accelerates. Look at some of the examples I have given there is a significant drop off when compared to their standard average.

I think Ryan should just do Boston since that he basically did a half marathon today.

As for training advice, if I were his coach I'd simplify things. Ryan over thinks things right now and defeats himself mentally. Just get really simple with things, just run 90-120 minutes a day (13 runs a week) depending on how he feels each day and whatever pace he feels like each day (6-7 pace with the occasional couple sub 5s at the end of runs when feeling really good). No workouts. But frequent racing, 20-30 races a year at various distances. Do this and Ryan will be so zen like and back into the theme of racing that he'll be rocking and rolling off sub 2:10 marathons twice a year like the good old days.

48+9 wrote:

agc5k wrote:

[quote]48+9 wrote:

Few thoughts.

By the Frank Shorter rule he may have some good marathons but no really good marathons left in him. At this point good would be sub 2:10?

You will get no argument from me Ryan Hall has had a fine career one that 99.9999....... % of people would love to have achieved.

You may be right a great marathon for him would be sub 2: 10 unfortunately I don't know if that is ever going to happen once the slide starts it accelerates. Look at some of the examples I have given there is a significant drop off when compared to their standard average.

Yeah its sad but true. I bet his making the 2012 Olympic Team allowed him to renew his Asics contract through the 2016 Olympics. If he isn't "old Ryan" by then, then he'll lose his contract and have to sign with Hoka like all the other washed up athletes (like Manzano)

68F and 4:42-4:50-4:41 = no self discipline

Do you guys realize that even if Ryan Hall happens to make the 2016 Olympic Team, he would probably DNF just like in London because he has too much pride to get beat?

In today's race, he legitimately dropped out AS SOON AS the Americans passed him. Stepped to the side of the road, RIPPED HIS BIB OFF, and walked off with an angry face.

For those who say he is humble, why would he RIP HIS BIB OFF AND LEAVE IT ON THE GROUND? LA is a huge city and probably has PLENTY of people littering around town. Why would we need another one leaving his bib for someone to pick it up and throw it away??

[quote]Ackley wrote:

Isn't his only other DNF the 2012 Olympic Marathon?

/quote]

A lot of DNS's add up:

London 2012 - DNF

NYC 2012 - DNS (withdrew before Sandy cancellation)

Boston 2013 - DNS

NYC 2013 - DNS

Boston 2014 - 2:17:50

LA 2015 - DNF

Was he ever announced as planning a fall 2014 marathon? I don't see evidence on a quick google search, but could have another 2014 DNS in there too.

on twitter wrote:

I can't find find a replay of the incident (wish I could see it, USATF TV looks like they archive some stuff... does anyone know if the bib incident was on the LA tv feed or the USATF TV feed?

I was watching the usatf feed. Cannot say what the LA feed showed.