You have a point, but BYU is no different in this regard than Notre Dame having the advantage when recruiting Catholics, if they can get in. A much bigger pool to draw from.
Ultimately, it has zero to do with race and everything to do with trying to develop native born talent and getting them an education with a running opportunity attached. It is very disingenuous to compare a 24-year old Mormon senior who is merely a year older than a normal redshirt senior at any school and who took two years almost completely off to go do a mission overseas somewhere (I realize they’re not all international) to a 24+ year old African runner who has been training at a high level the entire time, whose family paid zero taxes into the US system, and who might be two to four years older than stated age.
Eyestone is correct. However, I do think the NCAA should preclude anyone 25 years or older from competing. 24 should be the cutoff.
The humor in all this is that while Mormons truly aspire to BYU, catholics do not flock to Notre Dame nor do Jews all strive for Yeshiva.
Notre Dame, along with Gonzaga, Villanova, Providence, Iona and Georgetown have largely become secular schools, so their teams and student bodies are quite mixed. Catholics and Jews are also spread out across all colleges.
It's just amazing how many good Mormon runners there are, and they do all want to go to BYU. It also has little to do with the 'size of the pool'. Just watch at NXN next week how many of the top 20 boys and girls are Mormons.
The only really similar program could be Liberty with Southern Baptists, but there are not many fast Southern Baptists (yet).
I by no means find this unfair, I just think it's a quirk that happens to have a huge impact on our sport. If all of a sudden there were no longer excellent Mormon high school recruits, BYU would have trouble fielding a good team.
There's no issues of coaching here. What you idiots fail to understand is that relying Kenyans is pretty much cheating. Would it make sense for Euro-leauge basketball players to play in NCAA? Clearly no. Answer this question: Does this current system benefit American college Athletes?
Recruiting is part of coaching.
Let's call a spade a spade.
Oklahoma is ranked 50th in education. No one wants to go to Oklahoma schools, much less any smart Oklahoma kids. And Oklahoma has a lightweight economy.
Within Oklahoma, Okie Lite is little brother to OU. Kids in Stillwater don't even grow up wanting to go to Okie Lite, they want to go to OU, and OU is better in both sports and academics. Okie lite doesn't have a prayer of competing in any of the revenue generating sports, and they're currently not relevant in any of the major revenue generating sports right now.
So to try to get the school's name out somehow, they specialize in some small sport with low athlete counts and overpay in a low NIL sum market to win some more niche championships. That's what you mean by "recruiting."
You have a point, but BYU is no different in this regard than Notre Dame having the advantage when recruiting Catholics, if they can get in. A much bigger pool to draw from.
Ultimately, it has zero to do with race and everything to do with trying to develop native born talent and getting them an education with a running opportunity attached. It is very disingenuous to compare a 24-year old Mormon senior who is merely a year older than a normal redshirt senior at any school and who took two years almost completely off to go do a mission overseas somewhere (I realize they’re not all international) to a 24+ year old African runner who has been training at a high level the entire time, whose family paid zero taxes into the US system, and who might be two to four years older than stated age.
Eyestone is correct. However, I do think the NCAA should preclude anyone 25 years or older from competing. 24 should be the cutoff.
The humor in all this is that while Mormons truly aspire to BYU, catholics do not flock to Notre Dame nor do Jews all strive for Yeshiva.
Notre Dame, along with Gonzaga, Villanova, Providence, Iona and Georgetown have largely become secular schools, so their teams and student bodies are quite mixed. Catholics and Jews are also spread out across all colleges.
It's just amazing how many good Mormon runners there are, and they do all want to go to BYU. It also has little to do with the 'size of the pool'. Just watch at NXN next week how many of the top 20 boys and girls are Mormons.
The only really similar program could be Liberty with Southern Baptists, but there are not many fast Southern Baptists (yet).
I by no means find this unfair, I just think it's a quirk that happens to have a huge impact on our sport. If all of a sudden there were no longer excellent Mormon high school recruits, BYU would have trouble fielding a good team.
I take your point. And I think you’re correct. But the secularization is a fairly recent phenomenon (three decades). Bunch of really good running friends I graduated with who were Catholic all wanted Notre Dame. Big East Catholic schools were the backup plan.
I’m still with Eyestone though that American universities should be developing American runners.
Oklahoma is ranked 50th in education. No one wants to go to Oklahoma schools, much less any smart Oklahoma kids. And Oklahoma has a lightweight economy.
Within Oklahoma, Okie Lite is little brother to OU. Kids in Stillwater don't even grow up wanting to go to Okie Lite, they want to go to OU, and OU is better in both sports and academics. Okie lite doesn't have a prayer of competing in any of the revenue generating sports, and they're currently not relevant in any of the major revenue generating sports right now.
So to try to get the school's name out somehow, they specialize in some small sport with low athlete counts and overpay in a low NIL sum market to win some more niche championships. That's what you mean by "recruiting."
Could you see your keystrokes through those tears?
did anyone hear anything about Dave Smith getting chewed out by NCAA for what he said at coaches press conference??? I loved what he said but when heard it wondered if it would go over well with the brass.
They are absolutely college kids. They still go to class. They’re getting an opportunity to study at an American university, and that’s awesome. They also should get to participate in athletics like any other college student. Let’s remember college is about education at the end of the day
I feel sorry for Dave Smith. The man just won a National Championship and he has the respect of virtually no one. Most fans see him as lazy. Most opposing coaches see him as someone that is taking advantage of a flawed system. Very few people want to shake his hand.or congratulate him. I saw several hugs from opposing coaches with Coach Henes today. Certainly not the same love with Dave.
John Chaplin who coached and received several COY awards at Washington State was not respected by nearly all of his peers because of his all foreign team. UTEP Coach Ted Banks was thought of exactly the same way and died without respect of his peers for the same reason.
I hope that Dave Smith enjoys his current success but history tells us that even if he scores 17 points at the National Meet like the Ted Banks UTEP team he will die without respect of his peers and will never be thought of as a great collegiate coach.
Dave Smith couldn’t win NCAAs without recruiting all Kenyans. He knows it and so does everyone else. Buying older world level Kenyan talent to compete in what is supposed to be a collegiate system is not winning.
You have a point, but BYU is no different in this regard than Notre Dame having the advantage when recruiting Catholics, if they can get in. A much bigger pool to draw from.
Ultimately, it has zero to do with race and everything to do with trying to develop native born talent and getting them an education with a running opportunity attached. It is very disingenuous to compare a 24-year old Mormon senior who is merely a year older than a normal redshirt senior at any school and who took two years almost completely off to go do a mission overseas somewhere (I realize they’re not all international) to a 24+ year old African runner who has been training at a high level the entire time, whose family paid zero taxes into the US system, and who might be two to four years older than stated age.
Eyestone is correct. However, I do think the NCAA should preclude anyone 25 years or older from competing. 24 should be the cutoff.
The humor in all this is that while Mormons truly aspire to BYU, catholics do not flock to Notre Dame nor do Jews all strive for Yeshiva.
Notre Dame, along with Gonzaga, Villanova, Providence, Iona and Georgetown have largely become secular schools, so their teams and student bodies are quite mixed. Catholics and Jews are also spread out across all colleges.
It's just amazing how many good Mormon runners there are, and they do all want to go to BYU. It also has little to do with the 'size of the pool'. Just watch at NXN next week how many of the top 20 boys and girls are Mormons.
The only really similar program could be Liberty with Southern Baptists, but there are not many fast Southern Baptists (yet).
I by no means find this unfair, I just think it's a quirk that happens to have a huge impact on our sport. If all of a sudden there were no longer excellent Mormon high school recruits, BYU would have trouble fielding a good team.
Mormons as a group tend to be disciplined. That has a lot to do with them having a decent pool of runners.
Dave will mop the floor with Ed tomorrow and I’m here for it.
Losers make excuses. Since the beginning of time.
Cowboys 1st
BYU 11th
Lol what a beat down. Less excuses more coaching, Ed.
This is like entering a boxing match with a hidden pair of brass knuckles and then pretending you are some bad ass when you "win"
Ed didn't lose anything. He still has his pride, honor, integrity, and the respect of the track and field community. Dave Smith has nothing but a trophy that he purchased, might as well have just ordered it off ebay. He knows he didn't earn it, and we all know he didn't earn it. As a college athlete myself, such a trophy would be completely worthless to me.
Lol what a beat down. Less excuses more coaching, Ed.
This is like entering a boxing match with a hidden pair of brass knuckles and then pretending you are some bad ass when you "win"
Ed didn't lose anything. He still has his pride, honor, integrity, and the respect of the track and field community. Dave Smith has nothing but a trophy that he purchased, might as well have just ordered it off ebay. He knows he didn't earn it, and we all know he didn't earn it. As a college athlete myself, such a trophy would be completely worthless to me.
Man you BYU losers are as bad at metaphors as you are at cross country.
It might be “a little extra aid” to you, but it is not to them.
So EPO isn’t a little extra aid?
They already are coming from the Rift Valley, Laikipia Plateau, and Nairobi; all areas with significant altitude, are generally older; have already run professionally in some instances, and may be using EPO? That’s a huge advantage. If they’re coming here to run, make them earn a useful degree and give something back to society & mankind.
I think I misunderstood you. I thought you meant they were willing to cheat for “a little extra aid” as in a seemingly small amount of scholarship money but something that could be life-changing to an East African.
