Connor Mantz, 11th, 2:10:25, 3rd American - Are you giving Mantz a pass for his Boston result today?

Actually, as I remember it, his very best race in college was one where he distinctly *reined in* his instinct to go for it, *backed off* the insane pace set early by Kiptoo at X-C Nattys, and then roared back and obliterated him over the last 2K.
Similar judiciousness --combined with his incredible guts and toughness-- is what will lead him to his best races as a pro as well.

He didn't underestimate the course he underestimated his opponents. Not drafting and trying to set a CR by leading. He thought he could go for it, blow up and still win the race

Mantz gets a pass because he doesn't know his limits, he had to test it. He came up short, but he can use that in his next race. He's certainly capable of 2:07, and possible better.

Pass bc it reminded me a bit of Ryan Hall. Like that go 4 it attitude.

It does not appear he runs on Sundays according to his Strava. But he does routinely go over 110 miles on 6 days. If he was running 7 days a week, I assume his doubles or midweek runs would be slightly shorter and would probably still run close to the same total mileage.

Give me a break. This is he's 2nd marathon

But that's the thing -- Americans get more money from Chicago/NYC/Boston than Berlin/Rotterdam/London. And they like running those races for the same reasons a lot of us do. It wasn't too surprising when some Americans ran well at Chicago in 2019 when it finally had some decent weather and then at the Marathon Project. Good weather days at American majors seem few and far between. NYC/Boston are tougher than the fast European races.

Boston ran ~2:00-3:00 slow yesterday. I really think that Fauble/McDonald/Mantz/Albertson/Montanez could have all threatened sub-2:08 if they ran Rotterdam instead of Boston. The irony is that none of them got the Olympic standard and still need to run it. Many would still say 2:07 isn't competitive on the world stage and that's their opinion. But we have had similar caliber runners do reasonably well at the Olympics. If these guys are able to place well at Boston/NYC then they can do it at the Olympics. Fauble was the top American in NYC in 2022 (9th) & top American yesterday (7th). Definitely a threat to make the Olympic team. Going to have a hard time medaling but place well (top-10 like Ward) when there's only 3 athletes from each country & it's a race in bad conditions where you need to run smart & can catch people falling off of the front pack.

Idk. Gaffigan is making fun of the general marathon population. I think Fauble ran his best race possible. What more can he learn? He knows his limits. He still had ~2:00 positive split. I don't think Mantz ran to his potential & think he could've finished as high as 4th. Fauble has experience on the course and ran to finish as high as possible and ended up beating the other Americans -- something you need to do to make the Olympic team. Mantz seems like the bigger talent. I'm not trashing him but you gotta know what you're ready for. 1:02:20 through halfway is pretty close to a half marathon race effort for him, given the conditions. He went for it and toughed it out. I'm interested to see how he races an American only field. He should make the marathon team if he runs to make the team.

I respect a gutsy effort, but all the people who think that the difference between the Americans and the winners is willingness to "stick their noses in it" or determination to "go with the lead pack," have no idea what success at that level requires.

AMEN!

No. There is a long form interview with him where he explains he just wanted to race, even win. As such, he purposely tried to go with the "east africans" early and fast knowing it was a risk (pretty strong stuff if you ask me). Indeed he ran the last 2 miles in 6 mpm. At least that's what he said. So, lets give it up, its nice to see people race. No doubt at all he would go 2 min better with a PB race plan. Americans like bates and mantz just going all in is what we want to see right? Or do we like talking about the "1st american" that cruises in minutes behind the leader and we never saw them on camera for 2 hours? I can see it both ways. But I like Bates/Rupp/Albertson/Mantz's moxy.

I am way more bored when the "first american" is pacing himself well behind the african leaders from mile 2. I may know Rupp/ Mantz/Albertson is going to blow, but at least i get to see them try for 18 miles!

Well...thats the question? For the runner, hats off to the Fauble's of the world, we never saw you for 2 hours and its a foot note of "first american" as they go off the air!! Or...for the viewer, give me Bates and Mantz on my TV for hours keeping my attention and hopes alive while at work. Bless them. Racers, not PBers. As someone said, trials will be different.

Teare as a marathon prospect. Yeah I’m sure the one time NCAA xc all American and zero time PAC-12 XC champion with 3:50 mile speed is our best marathon prospect 🙄

The list of US guys with sub 27:30 speed running the marathon in close to their prime is pretty short. Guys like fisher aren't marathon prospects. He might not run one until he is like 35...

I don't fault Mantz for going for it and as I said earlier it was just his second race at this distance. The fact of the matter is that Boston (especially in yesterday's conditions) is not a course to set a PR. Mantz can and will run faster in Chicago or if he decides to do another fast course like Valencia or Berlin this year.

Mantz looked good until he didn't which was exactly what happened to Kipchoge. Was it the hills or was it the weather conditions, for Kipchoge Boston looked very similar his London meltdown so maybe it was the latter.

Bill Rodgers set the AR en route to winning Boston in 1975 and blew up in 1977 and didn't finish, yet in 1977 he also won 5 other marathons including NYC and Fukuoka. He came back to win Boston 3 straight from 78-80. Oh and Rodgers was 27 when he won his first Boston, I think Mantz will have a decent career ahead of him.

Mantz's 10K time is actually quite good relative to most elite marathoners, he's faster at that distance than Kiptum, Legese, Geay, and Chebet. That is not to say the faster one's 10K the better marathoner they will be and it is true a few of the above didn't really focus on the 10K distance; but to say Mantz is somehow not fast enough to compete with the world's best marathoners due to his 5K or 10K time is simply false.

Most of the best American male runners don't focus on the marathon distance until they are older (unlike the past greats like Shorter, Rodgers, Salazar, and Beardsley). In fact, Mantz reminds the most of Salazar who due to the duel in the sun in 1982 and crazy training regiment of upwards of 180 miles per week; essentially ended his career by age 25 when most distance runners are just starting to hit the beginning of their prime.

Mantz may not win a world major marathon but I think he's the best American prospect since Rupp and I think he has the potential to eventually beat Rupp's marathon PR and if the conditions are right, Hall's too.

That kind of improvement would have screamed DOPER today. Guys back then were fortunate (in some ways) - bad race - no one cared. Today - you are done. Drayton was the same - good days (Fukuoka and Boston) and bad days. No one is allowed bad days anymore. The big joke is that the harshest critics are those who never were anyway. Guys like Malmo (Malley) understand that you can't be "on" every race for a lot of reasons. The internet "experts" simply don't get it, but are the most vocal (like this thread) about it.

I like what Mantz tried to do (and Bates). The Kenyan mindset used to be hang on to the lead pack until you can't - dropping out isn't the sin it is in "Puritan America". The next time you go longer until you can't be dropped. Fauble's tactic might be appropriate in a championship race in poor weather (see Kastor in Athens 2004), but not here. I don't have a problem with CM falling apart here, he will learn (as long as he doesn't visit this site) and get better. He may never get to the highest level, but I hope he keeps trying - Fauble has NO chance to get there. Heck Levins tried to drop the field in his last race at 40km, but couldn't do it - still he stayed at the front the whole way to try and win. Don't see many Americans running 2h05 these days and trying to do that.

Moreover, why can’t we celebrate both guys and their differing strategies? Fauble wasn’t as talented in high school and was trying to run HIS smartest and best race. Which I think he did. I admire his toughness, because, again, while very talented, he’s just not at the same level as a Mantz or any of these Africans.

Upon further reflection, I also admire that Mantz went for it. He knew the risk. He knew he was probably going to blow up. But he took the chance to race with the possibility for a breakthrough race or at least only a fade to 2:08ish and 5th place, like Bates.

As much as people may think Mantz has a ceiling, he’s still our best, current marathon prospect. He’s probably faster than 27:25 if he trains specifically for the 10,000 and tapers properly. I have no doubt that this dude could CURRENTLY roll 1:03:29 and 1:03:29 in a flat, evenly-paced, time trial marathon.

I do wish some of these guys would cycle their seasons more. Mantz explicitly stated one of his goals is sub-13:00 in the 5,000. I can’t see that happening doing two marathons per year, even though I’m not sure he could do it even if he specifically trained for it. But, try to get that 10,000 down to 27:10ish. I could see him doing that. Then do a proper fall marathon buildup. Far be it from me to tell him what to do, but I’m not sure shorter PMP runs are ideal training. Seems like he needs longer tempos.

He's a professional athlete who isn't good enough to compete with the best, he ran stupidly and tried hard, whatever someone wants to call that as a fan sure why not

I learned my own lesson about going out too fast but I think every marathoner does at one point or another. Reading how CJ and Mantz went out too fast brought back memories.

If I ever ran Boston and qualified, I'd just soak it all in and not race it.

I have had friends negative-split and feel great at 20 miles--I think that's such a huge mental boost at that point, being able to pick people off.

Knew some runners who went out at Boston too fast--1:36 and then 3:32 to finish...