Let's Hear it Now Olympic 10k Farah or Kamworor?

Are you simple?

The poster I replied to stated that nobody has tried to make a race fast to drop Mo, I was alerting them to the 2015 WC 10k, where the runners tried to do just that, 8k in 21:28 is fast. For your information, in similar (but slightly hotter) conditions Bekele ran 27:05 in 2007, off a much more even pace of 64/65s laps from the start. Also, the average temperature I included is to give you an idea if what is normal for Beijing around that time in August (daytime), it seems to me you think it was 18°C when it was more like 25°C+. And humidity of over 50% at night is normal there also.

Some news articles that note it was hot and humid:

Heat regulation has a lot to do with a runners physique. I don't know why you are making statement's about things which you clearly are not well versed on. Thin bodies dissapate heat better. Therefore thin bodies do better at running for a long time, where lots of heat is generated. This is of course especially true in the marathon, but it affects the 10k also. Men can beat animals over long distances because we perspire and lose heat efficiently. Please tell me you knew this and just had a small lapse in brain power. There are a multitude of physiological reasons why overheating causes decreased running performance and there is extensive research into these effects. Maybe if you went out and ran a bit you'd understand for yourself.

glob wrote:

lrclowend wrote:

That's cute. 27:00 not fast! Only on Letsrun, folks.

45 seconds off the world record is not fast.

A time bettered only 98 times in the history of the world is, by definition, fast.

Mo can outkick Kamworor. Can he stick with him? He has the psychological tools, but can he be strong enough to run with this young, super fit runner?

Mo for gold, I'd have to say. But it will be a real test.

Karoki and Rupp will be in there too. Who else? We'll have to see who's holding what cards as the season unfolds.

Idoot wrote:

ventolin^3 wrote:

but it dictates your best distance

how many tall bulky guys < 27 ???

No. Temperature has nothing to do with it. You just proved it by mentioning Solinsky. Congratulations for disproving your own statements.

Tall bulky guys don't run under 27 because they are not fit enough. Has nothing to do with heat regulation. It has to do with training and calorie expenditure. People sweat.

I hope you are the same idiot posting under 'glob'. Can you please go and do some research before running off your mouth about things which you do not understand at all.

nonsense

where is +ve proof ???

what science are you offering ???

utter nonsense

you have no clue about basic science

from wiki on "perspiration" :

"Sweating causes a decrease in core temperature through evaporative cooling at the skin surface. As high energy molecules evaporate from the skin, releasing energy absorbed from the body, the skin and superficial vessels decrease in temperature. Cooled venous blood then returns to the body's core and counteracts rising core temperatures."

this is how a runner cools in low humidity from evaporative energy removed

you show your total ignorance of science from basic premise of what humidity means

it means the water saturation of air, which has a limit

if it is high/very high/100%, then sweat absorptive capacity of air is diminished/gone

it means sweat is difficult/impossible to evaporate & can not therefore take evaporative energy from the body

cooling comes from evaporative energy taken

do you have any clue about science ???

it falls off taking with it very little heat-energy but just the dehydration

taking no evaporative energy

clueless

ever heard of the prime factor of saturated vapor pressure ???

clueless

no one expected him to beat mo or Kamwo but he ran them close meaning he was in superb shape for 10k

it has hugely simple answer source :

post topic asking if rupp was in/better/worse shape in peking than eugene

someone close, if not rupp will answer

no

you are clueless about logic & science

no

it was pretty much 100% for 5y

occasional minor bug nothing weeks/month wrecking

he has gastroenteritis so bad 1y at eugene that coupla days before rupp had to actually carry him to toilet

mo still raced meet & only lost a sprint to soi

he has been virtually bulletproof for 5y & missed hardly any race, even when ill

eh ???

when did this cause serious injury ???

eh ???

what relevance has this nonsense to any documented serious injury/illness ???

kid

seriously

you need a hugely bigger boat

utterly clueless

do you know drafting helps ~ 0.7s/lap ???

mo ran ~ same 2nd time around with no proper drafting at all meaning ~ 2.0s worse off

the extra distance on bends/uneven pace reduced this to

~ 1-low/mid second

clueless

it got intrinsically better by

~ 1-low/mid second

clueless

it did

intrinsically, in eugene-'11 he was in likely

~ 3'30 - mid/high

7'22 / 7'23

12'44 / 12'46

26'35

5y+ later in peking it was more like :

~ 3'27-flat

7'17 / 7'18

12'37 / 12'38

26'25

all that work with sal has only likely improved his 10k by 10s, but the strength/speedwork has immensely improved shorter runs

get a bigger boat...

Idoot wrote:Well, excuse me then

why ?

It has nothing to do with me learning how to read

you clearly can't

You didn't say those were for Kamwo

learn to read

i'm sure upgrade of comprehension will come thru by chicago olympics

I think you should learn to write instead of me learning how to read

forget hugely bigger boat

you need to upgrade that dinghy

heres an idea, why doesnt mo farah do the 10k/marathon double at olympics?

hold your horses !!!

Kamwo/Krokey have to get in top-3 of trials

hopefuly they do

i don't know much/follow tanui

i highly doubt not-few

~ 26'20 / 26'30

talents won't turn up on start line at trials

it's hope one of those youngsters make team & will & sacrifice themselves for duo

someone will need to wreck thru in 26'20 / 26'25 pace to 8k in rio in order to break mo

i highly doubt tanui will co-operate

it will need one of those non-few, raw 26'20 / 26'30 kids of 19y/20y on start line of trials, if they make top-3, who can be "persuaded" by fed with a few $1000, to go flat-out to 8k in 26'20 pace which shoud do the job of dropping mo & let Kamwo kick on

the 2 boyz, whoever they are will have to sacrifice themselves for the

Emperor

i don't trust them to do so unless kenyatta puts a gun to their head before start

the boy, uhuru is not the clobbering force of muzee who wouda needed just to show his enormous R hand to terrify the 3rd stringer to go thru 8k at ~ 26'20

Idoot wrote:I think you have a reading problem

no

Nothing you said counters any of the points I made

nonsense

you posted

utter drivel

Try again

o k

get a bigger dinghy

no

utter drivel

what is better for 10k :

70F in zurich or 80+ with huge humidity & criminal air pollution of peking???

utter drivel

i showed you body type means huge factor in trying to run < 27

can't you think ???

utter drivel

totally wrong & clueless about basic science

utter nonsense

it's because they can't evaporate enough heat to run

< < 27

& physiology slows up their metabolic processes from the over-heating

they can be hugely fit

utter drivel

you have no clue about basic physiology it's cringeworthy

do you have any clue why body works ideally at 98F & not 95 or 101 ???

eh ???

what is this verbiage ???

walking to local shop is training & calorie expenditure !

how is that related to a tall, bulky elite running < 27 ???

& you have hugely & embarrassingly demonstrated you have not slightest clue about the physiology or chemistry about it for running...

I have realised by now that threads about or involving Mo Farah as a subject bring out all the enraged haters that will say anything to discredit his achievements or make personal attacks on him as an individual.

When he beat all the guys that broke 12:50 in Paris shortly afterwards at the Olympics, apparently all those guys lost 1 minute of 5k shape.

All the medals he has won were due to weak or stupid opposition, nothing to do with his tactical prowess and superior ability.

When he ran 3:28, twice, apparently the track was not to IAAF specification.

When he won a half marathon, 2nd place let him win despite running 2 seconds off his PB in a race he mostly led.

When he broke the indoor 2 mile record it was weak, despite besting Bekele, Guerrouj, Haile, Kipchoge.

Now when he won the 10k in 2015 it was a 'slow' 27:01 (as if Haile ran 26:30s in competition), it wasn't hot or humid despite every news outlet reporting it so, and then even if it was hot, heat doesn't affect runners negatively.

And any other wins where a 'logical' explanation cannot be found by certain posters, he's doping.

To me, this sounds less like considered athletics discussion and more smear/personal hatred born out of something more arbitrary like jealousy or perhaps dislike of his background or personality.

I would like to see a fast Olympic 10K as opposed to a sit and kick race. Hopefully you are right. On the other hand Mo has Olympic gold and experience counts for a lot in big championship races. Does pressure around the Olympics benefit Mo who has been there before, or can his competitors rise to the occasion and run the type of fast race required to beat him? I still like Mo, but seeing someone win in 26:40 would be fun too.

Assuming the Kenyans try to emulate their strategy today over 10k, how fast do they have to run to get a gap on Farah? I think they need about a 5s gap at least with 1k to go.

Do they take it out at a pace they know they can't sustain, but hope Farah backs off and can't make up the ground? Or start honest and then drop something like a 13:10 5k in the middle of the race?

I don't think "taking it out hard", in terms of an honest pace they can maintain, is going to be an effective strategy. If I'm Karoki and Kamworwor, I'm thinking I need to get a gap by 8k no matter how fast I have to run to do it.

Paul Tanui could have ran the legs off of Farah, Kamworor and Karoki if he hadn't raced himself to death last year.

Gulan Rapp wrote:

Still think that he can come away with the 10k gold, it's a perfect sit and kick distance for him, not long enough to reasonably believe that he'll get dropped.

Although he definitely sits and kicks he is also stronger over 10000m than Kamworor.

Going into this half marathon Kamworor had a PR that was 40 seconds faster than Mo Farah's PR. So when it came down to an insane push mid race Kamworor winning was a no brainer. But Farah has a PR that is 10 seconds faster than Kamworor so I just don't see Kamworor being able to run away from Farah mid race. We also know that Farah can kick while super tired, because of the 5000m at worlds in 2015

The 10k track and HM are very different. Kamwo has already shown he is less comfortable on the track than XC or roads. So it will be in Rio. The difference this time is that Mo must be on A-game. He does not have the wide cushion of superiority of the last 5 yrs. Mo is favourite but odds are longer now.

Metric Miler wrote:

Just to reiterate, 3rd fastest 10k in WC history (so the Kenyans did try and make it fast), average temperature for August 22nd in Beijing is 31°C and average humidity is 94%. I don't know the exact temperature and humidity that night, but it was hot, and humid, as has been reported by pretty much every news source.

You do not really know what you are talking about. 31C is 88 F, and 94% RH would imply that the dew point was 86 degrees. I will guarantee you that those are not the right statistics for Beijing weather. You are probably making the mistake that many people make which is to get a humidity reading at one time of day and assume that it holds for the whole day. However, the RH (relative humidity) reading is varies inversely with temperature. If it is 80 degree with 100% humidity the dew point is 80 degrees. When the temperature rises to 83 degrees and the dew point stays the same, the relative humidity falls to 90% because that 80 deg dew point means that the air is only 90% saturated with that slightly higher temperature.

You may have heard, very often in fact, that it was "95 degrees and 95% humidity". This would imply that the dew point was 94 degrees - and that is about the record dew point ever recorded and is about as rare as actual air temperatures of 131 degrees.

El Keniano wrote:

What's funny is how that 4-way competition for bronze was the typical Mo Farah race and he finally kicked that Ethiopian for third. Of course Kam and Karoki would've been in that unenviable position if they hadn't pushed the pace and taken themselves out of that mess. And it worked. Sit and kick didn't. How can people still wonder about tactics in Rio?

Didn't realise Rio 10k had been extended to 21k on the roads?

I was "nearby" in Seoul in Korea at that time. Went for a run. It was absolutely not hot and humid for the standards of that area. There was some typhoon passing around which brought a substantially cooler weather. It was around 24 degrees C.

It was not comparable to conditions like in Monaco for instance where there is much hotter (although not very humid usually).