I was at this course a few weeks ago for the Missouri High School State Championship. They had all those turns roped off with flags. For whatever reason, they decided to take them down and put down hay. Makes no sense. The course cutting was sickening to watch as a fan.
At the MO state championship they did have those turns flagged. However, they normally don't do that. They were actually flagged only to force the runners to run wider than normal to protect the inside path for the ncaa meet. So the MO state meet this year was actually longer than 5k.
This is my video from the course today around 4.4k. The white line is there as a barrier but no hay bales, potted mums, etc. like in some of the spots on the broadcast. There's multiple guys in the front pack cutting.
There is an official directly behind me here. I cut the video off before he started yelling at the athletes to stop cutting the course. He specifically started screaming at #709 New Mexico who is right in the last 2s of the video. He kept repeating to himself and anyone within earshot: "#709 New Mexico, #709 New Mexico, #709 New Mexico" to commit the foul to memory. After the bulk of the field passed he got a notebook out and scribbled something. Whether this official filed that foul or not, I have no idea. He missed a half dozen others before he even started yelling at #709.
I didn't hear any other official calling the cutting out, just this one guy.
I was at this course a few weeks ago for the Missouri High School State Championship. They had all those turns roped off with flags. For whatever reason, they decided to take them down and put down hay. Makes no sense. The course cutting was sickening to watch as a fan.
At the MO state championship they did have those turns flagged. However, they normally don't do that. They were actually flagged only to force the runners to run wider than normal to protect the inside path for the ncaa meet. So the MO state meet this year was actually longer than 5k.
I have been to every Gans Creek Classic HS and MO State HS Championship at Gans Creek and this year's state meet was the only time they had flags set up on any turns. And this was only to protect the inside path for ncaas. Those flags were not there at the gans creek classic. They have always relied only on painted white lines on both sides of the course. Today was the first time they have ever had hay bales as a barrier as well.
At the MO state championship they did have those turns flagged. However, they normally don't do that. They were actually flagged only to force the runners to run wider than normal to protect the inside path for the ncaa meet. So the MO state meet this year was actually longer than 5k.
I have been to every Gans Creek Classic HS and MO State HS Championship at Gans Creek and this year's state meet was the only time they had flags set up on any turns. And this was only to protect the inside path for ncaas. Those flags were not there at the gans creek classic. They have always relied only on painted white lines on both sides of the course. Today was the first time they have ever had hay bales as a barrier as well.
They need to get more of the MSHSAA officials to help at NCAAs…they don’t mess around with enforcing that section at the state meet!
I went back and watched some old state meet videos to make sure I wasn’t remembering anything wrong and most years there are officials sitting right on the white line in that section to enforce it. I’ve spectated in that section for years and have never seen people cut the course there. The brush/grass outside the white line is so much thicker and longer it’s very obvious where the course is.
It's a f*cking white line that is universal in XC and track in every country - meaning don't cut in.
If they don't understand English they shouldn't be in college in America.
I feel like that post was being deliberately sarcastic so you are both right. These aren't middle-schoolers in their first organized XC race out there - do people these days need to be told/explained everything to the most microscopic detail? Funnily enough it's clearly in the NCAA rulebook - just in case anybody needed official confirmation of blatantly obvious scenario.
Yes and Messaoudis involvement has a potentially massive impact on the title.
At 22min10 seconds into this race (7.7km), Messaoudi is in the lead group which is running 3-4 guys across. So this is not the peloton with 15-20 guys all compressing onto each other which might put pressure on the guys "on the rail". At 22:20 he cuts inside a corner and not just the chalk, but inside one of the parallel placed hay bales which clearly is oriented in such a way that it's not a "hurdleable obstruction"
He probably runs a good 10 seconds inside the course around that curve which if you watch the footage, allows him to avoid this sloppy, beat up section of the turn that the main pack (with Hansen, Samuel in it) need to conversely run 5 feet wide to avoid.
This can't be legal? Now it matters big time because he was 5th - the next scoring runner for OSU (their 6th guy) was 86th - more than the entire New Mexico total. If he is DQ'd (which he should be), they don't win the title. The question then becomes did anyone from the NM team do the same throughout the race but based on the 3-4 guys they had up in the 20 for the majority of the race, I didn't personally see anything - they seemed to be well inside the race course.
New Mexico cut the course way more than other teams, LMAO.
OSU, New Mexico, and Iowa State clearly cheated on video.
Yes. They course was cut to 4" about 2-3 meters inside the line. These guys are racing 250 people elbow to elbow. They look ahead and see the cut. They aren't looking straight down.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I think Messaoudi should be DQ'd. He seems to be the first and worst offender. If that changes the team results, that's all for the better. Letting these results stand is plain wrong.
Don't have any valuable information to add, but just gotta say this is crazy to watch and wild if nothing is done or said about it by the NCAA.
How many "no calls" are made that blow the outcome of a game, meet etc...these days? Constantly hear about officials being reprimanded a day or two later, after the fact. Nothing gets changed.
This is another example of how societal values have warped due to a lack of agreeable standards to live by. You know, the kind of truth many are not being taught any longer. Most people still know the difference between right and wrong but have a twisted interpretation to meet their personal standards and moral codes because they want to win at all costs vs winning honestly and losing with dignity.
Win or lose, good sportsmanship always wins. Everyone moves forward together from there. Not the wa, things are going these days. Bubba effect everywhere.
More Officials are weak in moral character because of fear of social repercussions by those lacking in truth. I dont think the meet officials believe they did anything wrong today but the fact is, they didnt plan well enough to do things right and then follow through with the written rule. Maybe they dont care, dont think it matters that much, figure its on the athletes to sort it out, know that everyone will forget after a short time etc... and all will just settle for a mediocre to meaningless experience.
The real advocates speak up and are shut down by social pressure or chastised for speaking the truth. What are their options? Stick to good moral standards or fight fire with fire? What are you willing to do, not do, live with?
Start with who do you want to to be (moral code) then find the people and path to get you there then let the things you want to have come to you. Not in reverse order that most of society operates under.
Let’s drop romanticizing the past as some sort of utopia where people were more moral than today. Ty Cobb used to spike people when he slid into second base. The Black Sox scandal was in 1919. And if you want to look at morality in sports more broadly, they used to forbid entire groups of people from competing based upon their skin color. Those were the “agreeable standards” and “moral truths” of that era. That’s how people twisted morality to bend to their perceived “societal repercussions”.
None of this is to imply that the cheating was OK, just that it wasn’t a manifestation of the moral degradation of society compared to how things used to be. It was athletes cheating. They have done it in the past and will do it in the future, so there needs to be better ways to prevent this particular type of cheating from happening again in the future.
