Ryan hall - I don't get it.

Yes, but a 4:40 is still incredibly fast for someone who hasn't even completed a marathon in almost a year. AND why didn't the other American men go with them or @ least run a 4:50 mile?? Maybe because they were smart enough to know the temps were going to rise substantially and the better way to race in those conditions was with a conservative approach? If you're defending the fact that he TOOK off with the leaders because the first mile was downhill, then why didn't the rest of the leaders get dropped @ 10K as well??

Also not a hater - my thinking when I heard he blew up before the half was how miffed the race director and support staff must have been. Isn't it incredibly poor form to commit, negotiate an appearance fee, then unravel at 10K like that? Granted none of us know the terms of Hall's LA deal but the whole manner in which that went down seemed fairly unusual. Normal protocol would seem to dictate that when there is something wrong (injury/sickness etc) you save face for all with a DNS, correct? Maybe collect on a portion of fees for meet and greets, interviews, etc. Is this thinking completely off-base?

I'd like to see Ryan regain his form but there is so much wrong with this weekend's performance.

We just posted a story on newyorker.com with a lot of interesting pre-race quotes from Ryan: http://www.newyorker.com/news/sporting-scene/the-philosophy-of-ryan-hall

Let me clarify. He's not mentally weak. The crux of the problem is physical. But when physical issues take hold, then yes, there are some mental byproducts. But that's not the main issue.

I think the haste to label Hall as a headcase stems from his personality. Lots of posters talking about how they knew he was a headcase from way back. Yeah right. He was a monster there for a while.

As for drugs, I don't think Hall was fast enough to warrant suspicion. And he's dropped off because injuries. It's a believable story and trajectory.

Looks like RunnersWorld covered Ryan's race too:

http://www.runnersworld.com/races/elite-for-a-brief-part-of-a-day

Nicholas Thompson wrote:

We just posted a story on newyorker.com with a lot of interesting pre-race quotes from Ryan:

http://www.newyorker.com/news/sporting-scene/the-philosophy-of-ryan-hall

Yeah, you're Nicholas Thompson, and I'm David Foster Wallace.

Nice try, Mr. Bethea. Next time, try not to post links to TWO of your bylines in the same damn LR thread.

Especially not when the second is about how you ran a 4:22 after starting in the subelite corral.

The Tiger Woods of Distance Running.

Great years, but those are gone. Great potential, but not is Fading, but does not know it.

FWIW, my suggestion wasn't that Ryan was a doper at all; just that were he not a blond-haired American guy, the overwhelming clamor on this site would be that he's definitely a doper. And it'd be perfectly easy to construe his career in such a way as to provide ample "proof" for the howling spectators here.

Ryan Hall dropped out of the marathon because he could. He has such strong sponsorship support that he has nothing to prove to anyone. He gets paid very well to run half marathons as workouts. Asics will never drop him. He thinks that he is in the cat bird seat. He can run whatever race he wants and will go for it if things feel great and bag it if things are not happening. He crossed the finish line in Boston just because it would have been bad publicity to quit. He only has to be ready to perform at the US trials and 2016 Olympics. Every other race is just a toy for him to play with. Go out hard, see what happens. Train less, train more, see what happens. He is just banking on everything coming together at the US trials.

problemwiththesport wrote:

Thats the problem with our sport. No post race interviews of runners who fail or disappoint. That aint happening in the nba oe NFL . No updates on Rupp or other runners who you don't see in a while. Needs top be regular press conference with the top runners

I wouldn't call it "the" problem, but arguably "a" problem. Best example for me, a big Haile fan, was his post-track career. For years, you had possibly the best distance runner EVER in the prime of his road career, and you (if you were a "casual fan," at least) would go months without knowing what he planned to do. Not to mention not having much/any insight into his broader career priorities. I would always contrast that with how EASILY one could know WAY more than any normal person needs to know about the plans/issues of other major professional athletes, and it was a bit frustrating. Choices seem to be: Overkill, and next-to-nothing. Oh well, Haile APPEARS to be done (how would one know?), so back to life.....

At least his strategy is very poor and needs to be fixed. As I told my wife after I heard he dropped out, "don't be hard on him, there is only one person in the car right now who has finished more marathons than him in the last 2 years." That was a joke, but he is either going out too hard and crashing and needs to learn to stop doing that or he his injured at the start of these races and needs to stop letting *that* happen. Maybe he has too much ego to admit that a 2:16 would be a good result for him based on his fitness so he foolishly goes out at 2:08 pace or something.

That New Yorker article is a great read. This little nugget here sums it up:

“I like to go into a race not expecting anything,” he said. “Not expecting to feel like a million bucks. Not expecting to hit certain splits or the race to unfold a certain way.” He went on, “I like to go into a race with not a real strong, set game plan, but just knowing that I’m going to take my swing at some point in the race, and then see what happens.”

So, let me get this: he didn't feel great, but went out with the leaders with no race plan.

The folks comparing this strategy to Jr High cross country right on.

Wow.

The fact that Ryan Hall doesn't have a coach, a manager becomes way more important. After his PB at Boston who allowed him to run the road mile championship a week later? This is just one of a dozen glaring mistakes that have been made. The week before that Boston he has made announcements on running New York that year. Take care of the job at hand.

the new yorker has it wrote:

So, let me get this: he didn't feel great, but went out with the leaders with no race plan.

The folks comparing this strategy to Jr High cross country right on.

Wow.

Maybe I'm reading too much in here, but nothing in the article referenced Jack Daniels at all. If any coach would have a handle on what an athlete's capabilities on a particular day should be -- and what a reasonable plan might be -- wouldn't it be Jack Daniels? I mean, his "formula" is about defining your capabilities and designing training as appropriate... A place at the Daniels' dinner table Sunday night would have been interesting. Seems very disjunctive.

He needs to get on whatever drugs Meb is using ASAP!

JD is an ADVISOR, he is no longer a coach. Ryan bounces ideas off of him. No more than that. This is how JD has operated for over 20 years.

Tiger is considered one of the three greatest players everRyan Hall is probably what? top 300?sorry, not the same league

The RIGHT shoe wrote:

The Tiger Woods of Distance Running.

Great years, but those are gone. Great potential, but not is Fading, but does not know it.

tropicalrunner wrote:

Tiger is considered one of the three greatest players ever

Ryan Hall is probably what? top 300?

sorry, not the same league

The RIGHT shoe wrote:

The Tiger Woods of Distance Running.

Great years, but those are gone. Great potential, but not is Fading, but does not know it.

But, the same state. Huh!

Both are California kids, right?

Huh, Right!!!

Wow, that is a great point!!

Reasons for Ryan to run the race:

-Sponsored by ASICS

-Wife was also running

-Appearance fee

-Close to his hometown

-Potential US Marathon Championship winnings

-Potential LA Marathon winnings

You can't blame Ryan for running the race. It made his sponsor, wife, and local fans happy. His contract likely includes incentives for championship races. It's good practice for where the trials will be held. His appearance fee probably included something for starting the race and additional money for finishing it. It's understandable why he ran the race.

Who runs a blistering pace at a marathon on a hot day on a course that isn't known for being fast? This is the kind of question we need to be more concerned about competitively. This is the approach of somebody who is unrealistically optimistic or else unaware/delusional about his own fitness. Ryan struggled in Beijing in similar conditions. There's something to be said for running with the leaders and putting yourself in a position to win, but how often has that actually worked for Ryan? Even during his tailwind PR in Boston he went out quickly before fading to finish off the podium. This is the same guy who thought he might break 4 at the Fifth Avenue Mile when even his most casual observers (and not haters) knew that was unrealistic before he found it out for himself midway through the race.

How rationally introspective is Ryan Hall? His New Yorker article is troubling in terms of showing any consideration for his training. Canova, Salazar, and other good coaches can typically figure out what their athlete is capable of to within a few seconds. The margin of error is miniscule for these coaches. Ryan's margin of error, though, seems to frequently be off by as much as 10% of his total finishing time. Surely none of his present day advisers told him to race the LA Marathon at 2:04 pace. It's been so wild for so many years that we as his biggest fans cannot even discern where on a spectrum of training and expectation/execution the problem is. It could be one or all of these things that Ryan is struggling with.

Injuries can explain part of his trouble. Age cannot; plenty of his peers are world beaters and record setters. If you accept Boston as an outlier that should be omitted (I ran it the same year and will not deny it's the most wind-aided race I've ever run), then you're left with declining performances as he's aged. His New Yorker article lets one wonder if he sees his earliest races as his best and unattainable ever again. With a slightly different evaluation, though, we could simply say that his times have gotten worse the further he's removed himself from his Stanford track training. When Ryan says he doesn't compare himself to other runners, is he being coy or is he saying that he isn't interested in lessons to be learned from his former self and the world beaters?

While we can all speculate what is actually best for his future improvement, we may not agree upon it. What we would likely agree upon, though, is that we are bothered when we get a glimpse into his analytical mind and find that its ruminations are full of transcendent performances by wrestlers in Munich. Wouldn't we rather hear him mulling over what Frank Shorter did during that same time period to become an Olympic champion? Wouldn't we want to hear about what guys do now to run 2:04 marathons with regularity? Please, Ryan, show us when you talk about training that you are at least a basic student of your own sport.

Sincerely,

A Fan