Dennis Kimetto - what are we Westerners still missing about Kenyan Marathoners?

If they're poor, they'll usually find a way to run fast. There may be other poor places in the world, but no other place is as perfect for distance training as Kenya and Ethiopia. High altitude, mild climate, and most importantly dry, except for a brief rainy season.

West Africans are poor too, but they have a hot and humid climate not conducive to distance training AT ALL. It's funny when people point out their slow marathon times. Yeah, let's see you train for a marathon when it's 80+F and humid every day. The heat sure does help you run quick though.

In the UK, France, and Germany, there aren't as many poor people as in the Caribbean/Africa or even USA, but the lower classes have a lot more white people than the USA and as a result they have a lot more white sprinters.

All I really know for sure is most white Americans are too rich and spoiled. Something about growing up poor just makes you run fast.

This!

If you are too dense to understand the differences between a trait many species, including our own, have had selective pressures on for millions of years (running if you didn't catch that), and a recent invention like team sports, I don't know what to say.

I don't know why people are bringing this up again and again.

Running is a basic part of being human.

Playing soccer is not.

Meth Major wrote:

Do you have any evidence that soccer is not as genetically linked as running?

LOL

+1

Amen

What we face now is that kids can't roam around on their own as much as they used to, which limits their spontaneous exercise. Organized sports don't cut it.

If skating prepared kids to be runners, America would own the records in every event. It's all about agility and death-defying stunts and X-games nowadays.

But mostly we just feed kids too much for them to be good at skinny sports.

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How are we so good at sprinting when low body fat is a component?

If they're poor, they'll usually find a way to run fast. There may be other poor places in the world, but no other place is as perfect for distance training as Kenya and Ethiopia. High altitude, mild climate, and most importantly dry, except for a brief rainy season.

West Africans are poor too, but they have a hot and humid climate not conducive to distance training AT ALL. It's funny when people point out their slow marathon times. Yeah, let's see you train for a marathon when it's 80+F and humid every day. The heat sure does help you run quick though.

In the UK, France, and Germany, there aren't as many poor people as in the Caribbean/Africa or even USA, but the lower classes have a lot more white people than the USA and as a result they have a lot more white sprinters.

All I really know for sure is most white Americans are too rich and spoiled. Something about growing up poor just makes you run fast.

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Are there poor people in the world who are not black?

There have been so many successful Kenyan runners that it's hard to believe there is any land left in Kenya suitable for a farm what with every one buying land with race winnings.

Business Exec wrote:

fisky wrote:

A closer look at the top 25 women marathon times in history supports genetics as a primary factor in marathon performance.

Some women appear multiple times in the 25 best marathon times in history, so we have 18 women with the top 25 times. The nationality of those women are:

6 Kenyan

3 Ethiopian

3 Japanese

2 Chinese

1 Great Britain

1 USA

1 German

1 Russian

So, 9 of the top 18 women marathoners in the world have been East African.

Quoting the nationalities of the top 25 list says NOTHING about nature vs. nurture.

We can agree that there is something unique about East Africans and distance running success. They're 1.8% of the global population and have 50% of the top marathoners. So, to what do you attribute this success?

My premise is that it is a combination of factors, including but not limited to:

Environment (altitude, climate, local foods, etc.)

Culture (running as common activity for youth, running barefoot from youth, running on dirt, runners revered, low calorie diet since youth, etc)

Genetics (body type, muscle type, especially the unusual make up of fast twitch muscle fiber found in East Africans, torso to leg ratio, pain threshold, heat tolerance, etc.)

Other (financial, motivation, coaching, etc.)

I think we would agree it's a combination of all these factors that makes world class runners. I'd say that genetics are 25%-40% of this equation. It's possible to be a good runner without world class genetics, but it's not possible to be a world class runner without having great running genetics.

fisky wrote:I'd say that genetics are 25%-40% of this equation.

What is that number supposed to represent? Percent what?

express yourself wrote:

This!

If you are too dense to understand the differences between a trait many species, including our own, have had selective pressures on for millions of years (running if you didn't catch that), and a recent invention like team sports, I don't know what to say.

I don't know why people are bringing this up again and again.

Running is a basic part of being human.

Playing soccer is not.

Sorry, that's a complete non sequitur. Soccer, like any other skill, IS going to be limited by talent once you've done everything you can in preparation.

Running is a skill too. One that we all have and can all develop to any level we want. We just don't want it as much as the top guys.

these genetics deniers are probably the same clowns who think black people sprint faster because they work harder

-1.

If the East African success in distance running was due largely to literal hunger(/poverty) driving them, then we would see the majority of them quickly quit or go downhill once they hit a few paydays. As many of you "environmentalists" like to point, wining a couple big road races can make these guys completely set for life, and very rich in their homeland. So why keep competing for years and years, if the drive to not starve to death/be very poor was the large motivating factor??

Geb and Bekele are as rich as kings back in ETH, but they keep pushing on and on and on. According to your "they are literally training to save their lives theory, and this is the difference between them and us", none of these guys would have long careers. But many, many do, and some get better and better, long after they are financially set. So it means their pride and desire to the best are even bigger motivating factors for them. And americans have those qualities in truckloads. People like Alberto Salazar, Lance Armstrong, or Seb Coe grew up in fairly comfortable middle class surroundings. And I doubt

Math Major wrote:

express yourself wrote:

This!

If you are too dense to understand the differences between a trait many species, including our own, have had selective pressures on for millions of years (running if you didn't catch that), and a recent invention like team sports, I don't know what to say.

I don't know why people are bringing this up again and again.

Running is a basic part of being human.

Playing soccer is not.

Sorry, that's a complete non sequitur. Soccer, like any other skill, IS going to be limited by talent once you've done everything you can in preparation.

Either troll or stupid. Or just ignorant..I think troll though.

Being a north-european I grew up playing soccer, so I know what I'm talking about here. Soccer involves MANY MANY diffrent skills, and you can lack several of them and still play at the highest level.

But, that is kinda besides the point anyways. Maybe you should re-read what I wrote.

Bill Rodgers gave up his cushy teaching job to pound himself into the ground before running even paid well.

I think Brendan Foster did too.

It's not because of poverty. Kenyans won the genetic lottery and racing is just about cashing in their ticket.

(whoops, hit "enter" before I finished my thought...)

Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:

People like Alberto Salazar, Lance Armstrong, or Seb Coe grew up in fairly comfortable middle class surroundings. And I doubt....

...any East Africans trained harder, pushed themselves more in races, or wanted success more than these guys. How is it possible to push yourself so hard (to the point of death in Al Sal's case) in an incredibly painful activity like an endurance sports when this is only supposed to happen when your life almost literally depends on your success (as the environmentalists like to paint the picture of the east africans' lives) ? Because for most athletes, ego, pride, and the desire to be the best and famous are enough motivation to cause them to push themselves to their absolute max for most athletes. You don't need to be starving. If you did, Dennis Kimetto would never run again. But he will, and he will run fast.

Genee wrote:

Bill Rodgers gave up his cushy teaching job to pound himself into the ground before running even paid well.

I think Brendan Foster did too.

It's not because of poverty. Kenyans won the genetic lottery and racing is just about cashing in their ticket.

Serious question, do you even know what the term "straw man" means? I don't think you do. Bill Rodgers didn't give up his job, by the way.

No they didn't win the genetics lottery. Their training is far superior.

Why do so many of you deny this?