Dennis Kimetto - what are we Westerners still missing about Kenyan Marathoners?

KAAT wrote:

Cant anyone acknowledge the difference in physique between a typical Kenyan runner and European/white runner?

It's hard for me as well to see how people are not seeing this. It's very obvious.

Also the running form seems really different in most cases.

Probably a direct result of the different build.

Come on rojo, you're not even trying to address the issues.

You are talking about gentics in such a generalzied way.

You don't seem to like the idea of someone making huge improvements. That just shows your lack of coaching vision. Why even bother coaching if you think like that?

The Brojos are all about big improvements. They just realize that some people are starting off where their dream of reality ends.

This story about Kimetto earlier racing under a different name is a little gnawing. Maybe Canova could comment on it, since he knows the management side with regard to how and why certain athletes get selected to compete in international meets.

Sciatica Road wrote:

Maybe Canova could comment on it, since he knows the management side with regard to how and why certain athletes get selected to compete in international meets.

What? You don't think he just bought a plane ticket and bib on his own ...(er, maybe selling a cow off the farm?)... and showed up to race?

Of course there are athletes with better genetics. They're just not unique to Kenyans.

Try visiting Asian cities like Bangalore, Delhi or Manila and you quickly realize why those countries don't produce good runners.

Can you explain why Kenyans genetics suddenly improved in the late 1990s?

R2D3 wrote:

Can you explain why Kenyans genetics suddenly improved in the late 1990s?

The end of Colonialism perhaps?

Did various tribes move at that time and intermingle creating a more suitable running profile?

Remember the genetic changes are from birth ie: 20 years before the 90s.

In one generation you can create a talent explosion with animals when a suitable cross is found.

Kenya became independent in 1957.

There have been numerous peer reviewed papers concluding that there are no significant genetic differences between Kenyans and anyone other population group and perhaps a handful that suggest the opposite.

R2D3 wrote:

Kenya became independent in 1957.

There have been numerous peer reviewed papers concluding that there are no significant genetic differences between Kenyans and anyone other population group and perhaps a handful that suggest the opposite.

Perfect timing. Just a couple of generations and the genetic traits are stabilized fairly well.

We are not allowed to say that one type of people has more favorable attributes. It's not PC.

does one get a fine or have to serve jail time?

R2D3 wrote:

Kenya became independent in 1957.

There have been numerous peer reviewed papers concluding that there are no significant genetic differences between Kenyans and anyone other population group and perhaps a handful that suggest the opposite.

1963 is when Kenya became independent. And when the first signs of potential distance dominance started to show.

rojo wrote:

I think this is past of your answer:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6036703

In addition to having thinner/skinnier legs, I also think it helps that Kimetto is not very tall. Most Americans are too tall.

You want to be well under 6 feet.

Two of the last four Kenyan marathon record-holders have been over 5'11"

Of course they were as skinny as wejo was at one time....

R2D3 wrote:

Can you explain why Kenyans genetics suddenly improved in the late 1990s?

Kenyan "genetics" didn't improve, the size of the talent pool did. Kenya has had one of the highest birthrates in the world for decades. Since the Kalenjin, 90% of all of Kenyans distance runners, are a minority in Kenya (10% of the population) it goes to reason if you expand that population dramatically then you expand the talent pool.

So what happened in the 80s is that our sport opened up to financial incentives to compete. But financial incentives isn't enough to expand the talent pool alone, you had to have a mechanism to get that talent to the competitions. That mechanism was the foreign coaches and agents. Once that mechanism was in place a match between talent and money was made. What running event has had the biggest expansion in financial opportunity? The marathon. From the mid-80s on the number of lucrative marathons all over the world exploded.

The average income in Kenya is $930 a year, depending on whose numbers you look at ($250-1600). So it doesn't take much to earn a years salary in just one race. Make just $30,000 and you've earned over 30 years annual salary. That financial incentive is huge.

R2D3 wrote:

There have been numerous peer reviewed papers concluding that there are no significant genetic differences between Kenyans and anyone other population group and perhaps a handful that suggest the opposite.

Which ones?

Nice post.

Did the genetics of the modern Thoroughbred improve when the Godolphin Arabian, Byerley Turk and Darley Arabian arrived?

There was a quantum leap forward in racing speed when their offspring hit the tracks.

Colonial Affair wrote:

R2D3 wrote:

Kenya became independent in 1957.

There have been numerous peer reviewed papers concluding that there are no significant genetic differences between Kenyans and anyone other population group and perhaps a handful that suggest the opposite.

Perfect timing. Just a couple of generations and the genetic traits are stabilized fairly well.

We are not allowed to say that one type of people has more favorable attributes. It's not PC.

You would have to be some kind of idiot to believe Kenya's independence somehow "stabalized the genetic traits." They were just as talented in 1957 as they are now. Every difference since then has been purely environmental.

fisky wrote:

Here's my take. The exact percentage is just a WAG to show relative importance.

40% Genetics

25% Culture

20% Environment (that over time affects genetic expression)

05% Elite Coaching

10% Other/Something else

40% genetics (stuff like mitochondria or muscle fiber type not stupid stuff like what your calf looks likes)

40% financial incentive (amazing how 1920's kenyans are so untalented compared to todays)

20% mentality (still waiting for the elite kenyan claiming he's so proud of himself because he went from 10th at halfway to 4th place and how intelligent he was)

The genetics were (of course) already there, but the running culture didn't move into high gear until the great Henry Rono burst onto the world stage in 1978-1979, setting four world records in 81 days. I remember seeing huge posters of Rono in 1979 when I was in Italy.

A whole generation of youth idolized Rono and those kids started the Kenyan running culture we see today.

So, that's why we saw Kenyans moving onto the world stage in running a decade later... or at least that's part of it.