Eyestone is up to his ears in moral quicksand. Even in my day we had to run against over-aged Mormons from BYU. How was that better? Samson Kimobwa was a month younger than me. Was it fair to him that competing against BYU was unfairly stacked against him?
Truth is, there will be about 15 foreign runners in the top 25 every year. Over-aged Mormons dilute the field even more. Ed, just let it go. BYU benefits from unfair recruiting. Nobody really cared until you threw your blatant hypocrisy into the equation. BYU was always about religious hacks. Age cheats, clean living, soaking, silk underwear, heck, Henry Marsh used to use caffeine before races, and he cheated at Risk! None of that was fair.
might be missing something as a non-American here, but do the missions not only last like a year or two? would that really give a huge advantage?
Of course. I would have been an NCAA legend with two years off like that.
They have to be tired of getting sued into oblivion, and can't really make any rules that will slow much of this down.
Try to slow down unfettered transfers? Get sued.
Try to limit income streams? Get sued.
Try to have a strict age limit? Get sued.
Try to limit how many foreign-born (international student) athletes you have? Get sued.
And good luck making the case that the NCAA would win any of those kind of cases in the current environment. Obviously I don't mean to speak in absolutes and claim the NCAA is completely powerless, but you get my point and it is largely true.
EDIT TO ADD: If the point of the conversation is to say that athletic departments or coaches should recruit American students as a matter of policy or personal ethics, then I think that discussion is certainly interesting.
This post was edited 5 minutes after it was posted.
I understand the complaints about foreign athletes, but that's not the part that bothers me so much.
To me, the bigger (and simpler) issue is the age issue. Set a cap at 24, no exceptions. Even the Mormons could graduate HS at 18, do a two-year mission, and still be 24 as seniors. And don't give me any of this "some kids are 19 at HS graduation" BS. If a whole bunch of basketball players can manage to reclassify and graduate HS a year early, some Mormon cross country runner can do that too. For everybody else, there would be some wiggle room with redshirting or dealing with injuries. If you've spent 4-5 years in school, you've had enough time to finish a degree. At that point, if you're not valuable enough to become a professional athlete, it's time for you to move on and get a job in the real world.
What is currently happening with some NCAA schools and international recruiting services is essentially slave trade. “Ok, [insert NCAA school], we will work on falsifying person X’s documents for a fee of $X. You can pay us $Y in exchange for [insert athlete]. We ensure they will increase the productivity of your business.”
I understand the complaints about foreign athletes, but that's not the part that bothers me so much.
To me, the bigger (and simpler) issue is the age issue. Set a cap at 24, no exceptions. Even the Mormons could graduate HS at 18, do a two-year mission, and still be 24 as seniors. And don't give me any of this "some kids are 19 at HS graduation" BS. If a whole bunch of basketball players can manage to reclassify and graduate HS a year early, some Mormon cross country runner can do that too. For everybody else, there would be some wiggle room with redshirting or dealing with injuries. If you've spent 4-5 years in school, you've had enough time to finish a degree. At that point, if you're not valuable enough to become a professional athlete, it's time for you to move on and get a job in the real world.
Agreed. NCAA should be developmental and full of younger athletes.
I love college cross country, I mean, I really love it. But when I look at what its become, I wonder, why exactly does college cross country exist? Back when I ran, the sport steered me into a school I would not have otherwise considered and when I competed, my network of family and friends paid some attention to that school – as did the kids I ran with who were still in high school, who aspired to do what I was doing, or heaven forbid were just looking or a place to continue their education. And while it wasn’t exactly front page news, when I did something, or my college team did something, the sports info dept. sent releases to my home town media, which had interest because of the local connection. So, there was not just value to guys like me, there was some value to the university, at least in terms of exposure and enrollment. But what value does a university receive a sport with a tiny roster that’s filled with overseas pros from places 8,000 or 9,000 miles away? The team might win big, but will it generate any real value to the university?
Sorry but there is no comparison between people like Solomon Kipchoge, Doris Lemngole, Ishmael Kipkirui, and Koitatoi Kidali who were top PRO talents before coming to the NCAA. They (allegedly) heroically declined massive lifechanging pro money, despite living in dirt poor villages, just to maintain NCAA eligibility.
Kipchoge declined pro money for 10 years after turning 18 just to one day be allowed to run in the NCAA!
And they are deciding to stay in the NCAA despite technically not being allowed to receive NIL money. So their families are sleeping on dirt floors in huts in villages with no electricity but they are declining hundreds of thousands of dollars just to run for a college team.
And it would be racist to claim that they are illegally accepting NIL money through their agents or intermediaries.
I am not comfortable with the racism here. Overage is overage. Many of these Mormons are getting stronger and more mature on their Missions. Hypocrisy is rampant.
If you consider naturally aging and running about 15 miles a week on their mission "getting stronger", then sure.
It is kind of ironic the school thah usually has the oldest team is complaining about others being old.
BYU also is losing their massive rosters with new headcount rules coming. No more 40 men on the squad.
I get it, it is tough. BYU is also crushing it though. Like come on Eyestone!!! You can’t have it allllll. Fastest marathon group, fastest female college runner, fastest steeple group, two teams that are always in the trophy hunt for XC!!!
Everyone seems quick to forget that just a couple years ago, Dan Waters — yes, the same Director at Alabama — proposed an age-limit rule stating that once an athlete turns 25, their eligibility would be exhausted. And what happened? The COACHES voted it down. Let that sink in. The same coaches who are now crying foul as things spiral “out of hand” are the ones who refused to put boundaries in place when given the chance.
Yet the programs being criticized today are operating fully within the current rules. Every athlete competing has cleared the NCAA Eligibility Center. They are eligible, period. So we can keep placing blame on the coaches who are simply navigating the system as it exists, or the coaching community can finally come together and establish guardrails they failed to support before.
I’d also like to point out the selective outrage here. Where was this energy when the women’s 1500 was predominantly Caucasian internationals? Or when the men’s discus saw a similar dynamic? Maybe I’ve been living under a rock, but it’s hard not to notice that the loudest complaints right now are coming almost exclusively from the distance coaching side — and aimed at one particular race of athletes. Rhetorical or not, that question deserves attention.
And let’s address another uncomfortable truth: there are plenty of Black and Brown American middle- and long-distance runners who would benefit tremendously from full-ride scholarships. Yet coaches like Ed and Rita consistently funnel scholarships to “silver spoon” American athletes who can already afford college, while overlooking the American athletes who actually need that support. If we’re going to talk about hypocrisy regarding “American opportunities,” maybe start by fixing the inequities within your own programs before pointing fingers outward.
People are upset with all internationals, including white internationals and those of normal college age.
But the extremely overage, pro Kenyans that are likely doping are clearly the most unfair.
So it's 100% acceptable to call out that group first. Kipchoge was a 28 year old freshman who has been receiving pro money for nearly 10 years before joining the NCAA.