Why did the Cold War arms race bankrupt the USSR but not seem to affect the USA economically?

Same reason that South Korea is more prosperous than North Korea.

Because we can blame the staggering resulting debt on handouts for poor people.

It did effect us. It's just that we could afford to outspend the Soviets and drive their economy to collapse. This was Reagan's explicit strategy to win the Cold War, and it worked without starting WWIII.

This is why I consider Reagan to be the greatest US President since Washington, not because he won some horrific war, but because he was smart enough to know how to win without one.

el hombre wrote:

Because we can blame the staggering resulting debt on handouts for poor people.

This. All the talk of deteriorating infrastructure, the shaky status of the Social Security System and so on would go away if we'd spent half of what we spent "winning" the Cold War on things like that.

DiscoGary wrote:

It did effect us. It's just that we could afford to outspend the Soviets and drive their economy to collapse. This was Reagan's explicit strategy to win the Cold War, and it worked without starting WWIII.

This is why I consider Reagan to be the greatest US President since Washington, not because he won some horrific war, but because he was smart enough to know how to win without one.

The cold war started well before he came into office. MAD prevented the shit from hitting the fan.

To avoid typing out a novel, you can pretty much summarize the difference in a planned economy or a relatively free market economy. The Soviet government dictated nearly all industry and manufacturing. So if that doesn't align with the actual needs of your people, eventually the gig is up, global forces are too much to overcome and you go totally bankrupt. Massive inflation hits, people start starving, you get the picture.

So even though we were (and are) spending ridiculous cash on defense, it's being syphoned off an economy that still is nimble enough to react to global pressures and to the needs of the people. We pile up the debt too, but have historically been able to grow our way out of it. Unfortunately that too appears to be coming to an end.

gopetego wrote:

Same reason that South Korea is more prosperous than North Korea.

That brings us to the one picture which should end the debate between free market capitalism versus centralized government controlled economies.

That would be Communist North Korea at the top and Capitalist South Korea on the bottom. We should work very hard to teach the next generation how to avoid turning into North Korea.

In the 1950s' Japan wanted it's POW released by the USSR, and was blackmailed by the USSR to provide key technology no other country had for sub-zero-weather-operational railways and factories in the frigid cold of Siberia. The US hated that. In responce, by the1960s' Johnson and Nixon traded US controlled Okinawa for Japan's non-cooperation with the USSR. That move eventually bankrupted the Socialist dream of Lenin, Stalin, and Kruschev. Japan's post WWII obsession with developing China and East Asia corrupted Nixon who cozyed up to China. In the end the USSR never recovered and collapsed. Today even though Russia has nearly forgotten it's communist past, it is still very angry and refuses to return four of Japan's sacred "home of 14K B.C. Jomon Civilization" northern islands captured by the USSR at the close of WWII.

The same reason Venezuela is collapsing today.

From the early 1900s' it was Japan that heavily developed Korea building most of the basic roads and modern infrastructure in place today. Japan allowed Korean's to have 'last names' and instituted universal primary education. After WWII Japan continued it's obsession with developing South Korea. The same policy was with Formosa (Taiwan).

The Japan card wrote:

From the early 1900s' it was Japan that heavily developed Korea building most of the basic roads and modern infrastructure in place today. Japan allowed Korean's to have 'last names' and instituted universal primary education. After WWII Japan continued it's obsession with developing South Korea. The same policy was with Formosa (Taiwan).

what's that have to do with the topic? Soviet Russia had a sphere of influence as well and developed countries like Ukraine, East Germany, Cuba, etc. Japan's biggest trading partner after WW2 was the US, but this isn't about Japanese international influence, its about Soviet Russia and the US.

the thread starter wrote:

The Japan card wrote:

From the early 1900s' it was Japan that heavily developed Korea building most of the basic roads and modern infrastructure in place today. Japan allowed Korean's to have 'last names' and instituted universal primary education. After WWII Japan continued it's obsession with developing South Korea. The same policy was with Formosa (Taiwan).

what's that have to do with the topic? Soviet Russia had a sphere of influence as well and developed countries like Ukraine, East Germany, Cuba, etc. Japan's biggest trading partner after WW2 was the US, but this isn't about Japanese international influence, its about Soviet Russia and the US.

The USSR wanted Japan to develop it's economy much in the same manner Japanese Automakers and thousands of affiliates marched into Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, and Kentucky and saved Ford and Detroit in the 1980s. The key move that doomed the USSR was Johnson/Nixon returning Okinawa to Japan in the 1960s'. Okinawa by the way isn't really a part of Japan, as it was captured in the 1600s as a defensive move after the Catholic Church/Portugal captured Formosa. The point is, that if Johnson/Nixon had not traded back Okinawa, the USSR experiment wold have been great a success and Eastern Europe would be bright red today. For example it is well known that Japan developed China, Northeast Asia, and Southeast Asia, and 1980s Detroit into what it is today. I should know, since I grew up in Ann Arbor.

The Cold War was an enormous drain on the US economy. After the Cold War was over a huge amount of defense workers were laid off; many companies folded, merged, and re-organized causing great turmoil. At the same time the mini-computer revolution swept out thousands of middle management and pencil-pusher jobs.

DiscoGary wrote:

gopetego wrote:

Same reason that South Korea is more prosperous than North Korea.

That brings us to the one picture which should end the debate between free market capitalism versus centralized government controlled economies.

https://dmarron.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/north-and-south-korea.jpg

. . .

No, it really doesn't. You can't end a debate that ended decades ago. Of course, being the Disco Kid, you CAN try to take credit for it.

el hombre wrote:

Because we can blame the staggering resulting debt on handouts for poor people.

^ this.

Military industrial complex is a huge incestuous welfare program.

Stupid dumb ox. The cold war drained the US economy for decades. Now with detente conventional warfare is important again.

Planned Economy wrote:

The same reason Venezuela is collapsing today.

Yes. "Planned" economy no longer propped up by high oil prices.

At the time, USA had a stronger economy than USSR. USA GDP, 2015, less than 2% growth. Including NSA, CIA, DOD, VA, contractors and ops off the books, USA spends over a trillion annually now on military. This is not sustainable! See fall of the Roman Empire. See fall of the British Empire. See fall of Spanish Empire. See fall of Portuguese Empire. See fall of Ottoman Empire. Eventually, USA must follow Libertarian model regarding military expeditionary ventures. Republicans think cutting food stamps will make a difference. Democrats think $15/hr. minimum wage will make a difference.