Downhill Marathons

Bill the pill wrote:

I notice more and more downhill marathons, primarily geared toward people trying to make their BQ or PR. I was first aware of St. George and Steamtown, but now they've been topped by many marathons with 4000+ feet of elevation loss. REVEL has 4 now (Big Cottonwood, 3 others). There's also the Freaky Fast. I saw Jack and Jill's Downhill Marathon. I think Light at the end of the Tunnel is another (they run it twice). I'm now mid 40's and a few years past my PR 2:49. I've taken to more ultras and trail races, resigned to the fact that my PR isn't likely to improve much. But maybe with the help of a downhill I could.

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Go with St. George Utah marathon a downhill 2,600 feet and will get you a PR.

WallyNtheBeaver wrote:

Go with St. George Utah marathon a downhill 2,600 feet and will get you a PR.

St. George is a lottery; there's no guaranteed entry that I know of. Do you think 2600 ft is less of a quad beating with as much benefit as 5000? Is there a sweet spot of elevation loss? My PR came on a medium hilly course, but it was a perfect calm 40 degree cloudy day after a great training cycle minimally interrupted by my typical injuries.

The next step to this way of thinking is to just pull a Rossi and cheat. Sad really.

Downhill running generally benefits slower runners looking for a big gains, a faster runner will likely trash their quads pulling this stunt. A gentle downhill might help a bit.

But try it and see, maybe you'll do okay if you're not going to be running sub 3.You can aid your treadmill decline with a piece of wood under the back. Maybe go 10 miles, let the machine cool for 15 minutes if you are worried about it, then do 10 more. I've done 4 hours straight on my POS NordicTrack and it did okay.

Downhill From Here wrote:

But try it and see, maybe you'll do okay if you're not going to be running sub 3.You can aid your treadmill decline with a piece of wood under the back. Maybe go 10 miles, let the machine cool for 15 minutes if you are worried about it, then do 10 more. I've done 4 hours straight on my POS NordicTrack and it did okay.

I'd be going for high 2:40's.

I think I'm in sub 3 shape currently, though losing leg turnover speed (I don't do any speed work, recently focusing on ultras) and my 2 recent 5Ks on no rest have been over 19.

It's a good thought on the boosting the TM. Mine does get hot pretty quickly as it is, to the point the whole room heats up within about 30 minutes. But maybe I could at least get a few miles in that way here and there.

There's a race in late June in Georgetown Colorado called the Slacker Half. It's a 3000 foot drop in 13.1. It might be a good test for you. The last mile is dead ass flat, and it feels like you're climbing a steep hill after 12 miles at 4 to 6 percent downhill.

Do it in roller blades!!!

To count as a pr, you should have to run it down one year, up the next year and average the times.

Or you could find a buddy who likes to run up hill. He Could drop you off at the top and drive down to the bottom so he could run up. When you get to the bottom, jump in the car and head back up the hill to pick him up.

I ran a race Saturday where they bussed us down a mountain and we ran the 6.5 miles to the top. I didnt set my 10k pr enroute.

Other options..... wrote:

To count as a pr, .

That's really a key part of the question. If you set a PR on a downhill course, does it really count? Boston doesn't care, but for WR it wouldn't count.

I know a couple of people who do count St. George as their PR, and no one discredits them or "handicaps" their time because it was a downhill course. Quite the contrary; there was much celebration in the local running community when they got those PRs.

Slacker veteran wrote:

There's a race in late June in Georgetown Colorado called the Slacker Half. It's a 3000 foot drop in 13.1. It might be a good test for you. The last mile is dead ass flat, and it feels like you're climbing a steep hill after 12 miles at 4 to 6 percent downhill.

It's actually 2000 feet. But considered "record eligible" for state records. Go figure.

Anytime I hear someone talk about their PR from a big downhill course, I can't help but to roll my eyes. I don't mean to, it's a reflex that I cannot stop.

OP, don't be that guy who claims a downhill race as a PR

Ask all the folks who used St George to obtain an OTM qualifier.

Helpful advice giver wrote:

Anytime I hear someone talk about their PR from a big downhill course, I can't help but to roll my eyes. I don't mean to, it's a reflex that I cannot stop.

OP, don't be that guy who claims a downhill race as a PR

So do you also instinctively give more credibility if they set their PR a relatively more difficult marathon, like maybe NYC instead of Chicago or Berlin?

I'm still proud of my 2:49, set at MCM which isn't a particularly easy course. But unfortunately time's catching up to me and chasing another PR, even if it's hill assisted, might just be enough to motivate me to get faster again.

I ran a downhill 5k when I just stopped competitive running for the hell of it but don't consider it my PR.

Fontana Days half in LA area has a lot of downhill... 1200+?

I never did that but with I would have just for fun. I was a 1:09/2:26 guy so it would have been interesting to see how much it improves your time.

there's definitely a sweet spot, more than about 100 feet of loss per mile really starts to wear after a bit. you could probably run a half with up to 2-300 feet of loss/mile and hold on, but it would kick your ass. for a full, much more than 1-150 will trash you. i live in utah and the only road marathon i've run is ogden, which loses a relatively pedestrian 1000ish feet, mostly over a couple miles at the beginning and end, which wasn't too bad, not terribly different than boston especially considering altitude. i wouldn't count anything more than that as a PR. st. george is a big local race but most of the fast guys won't count it as an actual PR. it sucks that there are only a couple local marathons that actually have fair courses and all of the big ones go straight down a canyon.

all zero of them? STG didn't count as an OTQ at least for 2016.

Ask Around wrote:

Ask all the folks who used St George to obtain an OTM qualifier.

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Downhill From Here wrote:

Downhill running generally benefits slower runners looking for a big gains, a faster runner will likely trash their quads pulling this stunt. A gentle downhill might help a bit.

But try it and see, maybe you'll do okay if you're not going to be running sub 3.You can aid your treadmill decline with a piece of wood under the back. Maybe go 10 miles, let the machine cool for 15 minutes if you are worried about it, then do 10 more. I've done 4 hours straight on my POS NordicTrack and it did okay.

Agree with this. You're probably better off doing a flat course, or one with a very slight downhill. It's much worse if the downhill is early in the course, because over the 2nd half, your quads are likely to be trashed, and you'll lose more time than you might have made from the downhill sections.

Bill the pill wrote:

I'd be going for high 2:40's.

I think I'm in sub 3 shape currently, though losing leg turnover speed (I don't do any speed work, recently focusing on ultras) and my 2 recent 5Ks on no rest have been over 19.

It's a good thought on the boosting the TM. Mine does get hot pretty quickly as it is, to the point the whole room heats up within about 30 minutes. But maybe I could at least get a few miles in that way here and there.

Get a high velocity fan to blow air over the motor area. My room heats up but I think that's as much to do with my calorie burn as the motor. Just get as much ventilation going as possible.