Mary Cain

Shooting stars go down in flames.

Mary Cain is 19. Andre De Grasse is 20. They are on very different trajectories. Before Allyson Felix was 20, she had a world championship gold and an Olympic silver.

Cain had one of the best high school coaches in the country at Bronxville. She ran 4:11 in World Juniors before she started with Salazar.

You know what has happened since. I have no doubt that if she and her family had just canned the ego, stuck with her high school program, and gone somewhere like Dartmouth, she would not be in the situation she is now.

Jessica Judd has had nearly the same experience, perhaps worse in that she's had to give up on the 800 and focus on the 1500 which was not her strength earlier. One thing they both had in common: unusual mechanics. Both have apparently corrected the mechanics without improving their performances.. There is a long list of ,especially, young 800 meter runners who simply hit the wall and regress to running about 2:01, then don't have the strength to improve in the 1500 either (for example, where's Laura Roesler this year?). Just watching that race yesterday (Cain and Judd finished nearly together), you could see Cain get steadily dropped on the last lap which used to be her strength. If Cain, her family or Salazar know what's going on, they sure aren't letting the cat out of the bag. Saying that this could have been avoided if she'd followed the "normal" NCAA progression is pure guesswork on our part. More likely it's all in her genes.

coach d wrote:

Mary Cain is 19. Andre De Grasse is 20. They are on very different trajectories. Before Allyson Felix was 20, she had a world championship gold and an Olympic silver.

Cain had one of the best high school coaches in the country at Bronxville. She ran 4:11 in World Juniors before she started with Salazar.

You know what has happened since. I have no doubt that if she and her family had just canned the ego, stuck with her high school program, and gone somewhere like Dartmouth, she would not be in the situation she is now.

Coach J46 wrote:

To clear up some misnomers.

Misnomer: A wrong or inaccurate use of a name or term.

So, no, you didn't clear up any misnomers.

If someone pointed this out, I apologize. TL:DNR!

Compare progression with someone like Shelby Houlihan. It's not that unusual for middle distance people, male or female, to plateau for a couple of years in college, but going backward is not a good sign. Jenny Simpson didn't run 3:59 until she was 22. Mary Cain has 3 years before then, but does not seem to be making any progress.

As malmo once said, she made a deal with the devil...

3:59? MC?

I think her slower times have much to do with how her body has matured. She doesn't look the same as when she ran 4:04 and 1:59...she was much leaner then. I am not sure there is much she can do about it.

not the same wrote:

I think her slower times have much to do with how her body has matured. She doesn't look the same as when she ran 4:04 and 1:59...she was much leaner then. I am not sure there is much she can do about it.

Girls finish maturing by 14-15. Any changes after that have to do with diet and exercise.

Pubes wrote:

not the same wrote:

I think her slower times have much to do with how her body has matured. She doesn't look the same as when she ran 4:04 and 1:59...she was much leaner then. I am not sure there is much she can do about it.

Girls finish maturing by 14-15. Any changes after that have to do with diet and exercise.

I really think you are actually stupid enough to believe this

cvxvzxcvzxvzxcv wrote:

I really think you are actually stupid enough to believe this

Nope, not stupid. It's science and statistics.

Pubes wrote:

cvxvzxcvzxvzxcv wrote:

I really think you are actually stupid enough to believe this

Nope, not stupid. It's science and statistics.

I don't know what science you read, but you're pretty much dead wrong.

Jwsidjdjakakdnd wrote:

I don't know what science you read, but you're pretty much dead wrong.

Do you have anything to back up your statement or are you just going to keep saying unsubstantiated statements?

Someone mentioned Judd, another is Anita Hinricksdottir, another 19-year old with problematic mechanics. She burst on the scene with 2:00 in 2013 (age 17), but hasn't broken 2:01 the last two years.

Contrast with Alexa E, perfect mechanics and consistent coaching.

As for Mary, maybe she is best coached remotely, away from AlSals creepy personal influence.

This thread is a f***ing mess.

You meant to write misinformation, not misnomers. Fortunately someone else already attacked this.

Really? Perhaps you mean most-celebrated American female middle-distance or distance runner?

So nothing is certain, then one thing is certain, then you're not sure about that one thing. Did you proofread at all?

So her performance ceiling is in her genes, but the best mechanics for her body are not? Come on. Her mechanics should not have been touched. Michael Johnson said that one of the things that allowed him to succeed was having a coach who was accepting of his unusually "upright" running style.

No. Girls are sexually capable at that age, on statistical average (an average, which, by the way, has changed over the last 100 years), but are by no means mature. The hips are still widening, the body is still accumulating fat, the growth plates are still fusing (which accounts for facial changes), organs are still maturing (which includes the lungs), and the brain and eyes do not even finish maturing until into early-to-mid-20's.

Ditto. You were the first to make a claim, so you substantiate yours first, then I'll substantiate mine.

too many morons here wrote:

Pubes wrote:

Do you have anything to back up your statement or are you just going to keep saying unsubstantiated statements?

Ditto. You were the first to make a claim, so you substantiate yours first, then I'll substantiate mine.

No, that's not how that works. If you are the denier, then it's on you to provide counter substantiation first.

Pubes wrote:

Girls finish maturing by 14-15. Any changes after that have to do with diet and exercise.

Mostly correct. The big changes are finished by around 15. But there will of course be changes throughout the life. Hips will indeed widen a little in the following years, but not by much, and it's irrelevant to running ability.

You seem a little odd. Does your wife (assuming you have one) know you're "mesmerized" by a young woman in bunhuggers?Seriously, get a grip people, who the h$ll cares about Mary Cain....

Not all girls finish maturing by 14 or 15. I doubt even most due. I can specifically remember a duo of sisters, a year apart, who dominated the high school ranks and only one had a good college career and the other one, well...she got curves.

What about freshman girls who've won Foot Locker and never done well again? What do you suppose that was about?

you are 99% correct wrote:

Pubes wrote:

Girls finish maturing by 14-15. Any changes after that have to do with diet and exercise.

Mostly correct. The big changes are finished by around 15. But there will of course be changes throughout the life. Hips will indeed widen a little in the following years, but not by much, and it's irrelevant to running ability.

I was under the impression that hip width and excess hip rotation were two of the factors that led women to be slower runners than men, but having had a quick look on Google scholar it seems like the jury is still out.

etc