Ben Saarel runs 1:51.11 pb and leg on Colorado's 4 x 400 - Has Wetmore changed his training because of Salazar/Rupp?

No.

OP,

Yes I am a big Saarel fan. As a result, while a rational person would point out he ran a 1:53.13 pb in HS, if I had started this thread it would have been entitled: Sub 13:00 Here We Come - Saarel runs 1:51.11 800 pb.

Saarel's speed is key to potential future success in championship races and the whole reason I hyped him last year:

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2013/05/mark-wetmore-is-going-to-be-a-very-happy-man-ben-saarel-is-a-special-talent/

It's next to impossible to develop speed (Rupp is one of the few examples of it).

Of course, it takes quite an engine to have the endurance to ever get close to 13:00 as well.

Your post is an intereting one. I rarely ran guys in races under distances. I guess if I was still coaching collegiately i might be a tiny bit less hesitant to do it because of Rupp but my training philosophy hasn't changed because of them. You seem to be implying he's redefined training like Lydiard or something.

He actually ran 1:51.13 in high school.

rojo wrote:

It's next to impossible to develop speed (Rupp is one of the few examples of it).

Where do you guys get this garbage? Speed is just as possible to develop as endurance. The problem is that you don't spend as much time working oikn your speed as you do your endurance. No, doing your strides after easy runs doesn't count. Workout like a sprinter for a season and you'll see changes.

I was at the meet and I timed his 400 as a 50 low. Pretty impressive considering what he did in that 800. Also it looked like in the 800 he had some left at the end. I think he could go sub 1:50 if he ran a more prestigious meet.

Wetmore has always transitioned to intense speed in track season. This is setting up Saarel for a Barringer-esque (Pre meet) breakthrough performance.

aspiring coach wrote:

I know letsrun loves Saarel. Surprised no one was talking about his 800 pb last week.

Ben Saarel Colorado 1:51.11

The thing I found more interesting was the fact that he also ran a leg on Colorado's 4 x 400 (Anyone know his split?).

When I saw that I was wondering if maybe Wetmore was trying to imitate what Salazar has done with Rupp - relentlessly hammer the under distance stuff. Before Wetmore was clearly a strength = speed guy. Any chance he's seen how Rupp has gotten faster by running under distance and trying to imitate it?

isio wrote:

Where do you guys get this garbage? Speed is just as possible to develop as endurance. The problem is that you don't spend as much time working oikn your speed as you do your endurance. No, doing your strides after easy runs doesn't count. Workout like a sprinter for a season and you'll see changes.

thats not developing speed. thats taping into the speed you already have.

It actually converted to a 1:50.41 from altitude in Boulder.

http://www.tfrrs.org/lists/1294.html?gender=m#12

number ln e wrote:

isio wrote:

Where do you guys get this garbage? Speed is just as possible to develop as endurance. The problem is that you don't spend as much time working oikn your speed as you do your endurance. No, doing your strides after easy runs doesn't count. Workout like a sprinter for a season and you'll see changes.

thats not developing speed. thats taping into the speed you already have.

Totally agree with isio.

According to the above, going on long runs is just tapping into the endurance that you 'already have'. Or doing bodyweight exercises and lifting weights is just tapping into the strength you 'already have'.

The only way to develop pure speed is to train at sprinting. Distance people don't seem to get this basic principle, which is why most of them don't maximise their potential.

To say you can't improve speed shows ignorance. If you don't know how to improve speed, just say it.

Racing guys at lower distances does not help speed. It is what you do in training that can increase it. I guess a race at a lower distance may be good to evaluate whether an athlete has increased their lower end abilities, but it doesn't necessarily mean speed has improved. You can get faster at 800m just by being stronger.

3 1:52.64a Apr 20 Mt. SAC Relays

1 1:51.91a May 4 BYU Invitational

1 1:51.13a May 17 Utah State T&F Champ

those are the ones I am aware of

Still a huge talent

I'm actually surprised that he hasn't yet run sub 1:50, because he's proved that he has a tremendous kick and could run something like 54 at the end of a 2M in high school. Maybe all he needs now is a sea level race with 1:46-8 guys in it.

running an 800 and 4x4 leg at an early season meet = coach must be having him "relentlessly hammer the under distance stuff"

?

our 1500/5K guys would do stuff like this 1-2x a year at low-key meets in college.

aspiring coach wrote:

I know letsrun loves Saarel. Surprised no one was talking about his 800 pb last week.

Ben Saarel Colorado 1:51.11

The thing I found more interesting was the fact that he also ran a leg on Colorado's 4 x 400 (Anyone know his split?).

When I saw that I was wondering if maybe Wetmore was trying to imitate what Salazar has done with Rupp - relentlessly hammer the under distance stuff. Before Wetmore was clearly a strength = speed guy. Any chance he's seen how Rupp has gotten faster by running under distance and trying to imitate it?

A 1:51x 800m is a decent time for an NCAA miler, but it should not a point of discussion. There is nothing special at all special about that time.

Saarel ran races last spring to indicate that he was probably a 3:41-3:43 guy at the time. He did win the big HS mile at the grand prix in 4:02 on a day that Rudisha only ran 1:46 IIRC. This race is pretty much in line with anything he did last year, especially since he ran 1:51 at comparable elevation. Nothing to write home about.

I am more intrigued by Moussa running 1:52.4 which gets him into the 1:51's for TFRRS. Maybe the beginning of a breakthrough? He ran 3:47 and 13:57 last spring.

Wetmore has been doing this for a long time. I remember 2years in a row where he had Jorge Torres open up outdoors with a 1:50

800. He also uses time trials (like 600 and 1000) regularly.

Saarel is fun to watch. I hope he has a great outdoor season.

Yes, everyone saw him win Arcadia in a 54ish last lap and running away from Montoya. We also saw the dream mile.

I agree that you CAN develop speed, but racing an 800 followed by a 400 is not developing speed.

Maybe this adjunct question is another thread, but I'll start here:

I have recently read a statement from Kara Goucher on her return to Boulder and Wetmore in which she said that she couldn't believe or was surprised how much the [Wetmore] training had changed [since she was last a part of his program].

Does anybody have details about those changes? I, like many Letrun.com visitors, have read Running with the Buffaloes, and I had a pretty clear grasp on what the Colorado XC runners did. What has that evolved into in 2014?

I'll take your responses off the air.