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LOL. It was not the "ONLY detailed contemporary account" as other posters, including myself, told you time and time again. Other accounts gave 49.7, 50.2 and the one that I proposed was probably the most accurate at 50.6.
You dismissed ALL of the above and stubbornly refused to even consider anything apart from a "reputable German broadsheet's" claim it was 49.4. You were WRONG!
Well, that account was out by over a second, and you had the audacity to call people idiots who were pretty much on the mark with 50.6. You were woefully wrong, despite repeated claims by yourself that you knew what you were talking about. Clearly you didn't, yet now you want everyone to listen to you again and believe what you say is accurate! That's a bold claim.
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Are these "other accounts" the same German ones that were completely WRONG about his last lap time? You chose to dismiss the time of 50.6 given by others, and yet you are now using their words as facts? Which account of the race are you now referring to?
You clearly haven't seen the race, and yet you have the blind faith to claim any comment about the race as a fact, without considering any exaggeration being added.
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No, he produced a 1:50.5. He ran a 60.0 followed by a 50.5. By said88's account he was flat out all the way for the last 300m. You pre-suppose that all other athletes you compare him to were also flat out for the duration of the last 300m. That is something you cannot claim categorically. Many of these races come down to a last 100m effort.
Had Ryun made a 'hard effort' earlier in the race, e.g. on the 3rd lap, then he wouldn't have finished as fast in the last 300m.
Losing 'time...in unenforced slow lap' is irrelevant as the same claim can apply to other athletes in other comparable races.
If Ryun had run a 1:48 last 800 in a 3:36. his last 300 would have been 38 something. You make a huge leap of faith to say it is worth a 1:46 finish in a 3:34. There is no proof at all that this was the case.
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Absolute nonsense. A 36.6 300 finish at the end of a 3:38 tells us little about his 400 open ability. Gonzales finished a 1500 in 36.7, Aouita allegedly ran a last 300 in 36.1 in a 3:34. Neither of them were capable of sub 47 in an open 400m.
The only evidence to support Ryun's open 400 ability are the relay legs he ran.
A 46.9 440 leg tells us that he had 47.1- 47.3 open 400m ability at best on cinders.
To go from that to claim he "musta had" low 45 synthetic speed is wishful thinking, and cannot be proven in any way.
Your whole argument hinges around the perception that every cinder track was 1 sec per lap slower. For a start that is a sweeping generalisation. Moreover, neither you, nor Ron Clarke can prove this. There are just as many experts who state it is 0.5 sec per lap.
Even if there were a shred of truth in the 1 sec conversion, that only brings his 400 open down to low 46. You then knock another whole second off for spurious assertions that range from it being very wet, or he was a bit tired, or he had a headache, etc. None of these things can in any way be measured accurately or scientifically. You have appointed yourself as the expert and deduced it is a second. The only evidence we have of Ryun's ability at 400 are the variety of relay legs he ran.
If you go to this site, where the stats were compiled by Ryun's coach, Bob Timmons, you'll see that Ryun ran 3 (three) 440 relay legs in 67.
http://rinksramblings.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/ryun-project-7.htmlThey were 47.0, 48.0 and 47.0
The fastest was 47.0 and that's worth 46.7 for a 400m relay, or c. 47.3 for an open 400m. Or were all of these on flooded cinder tracks too?
No will in the world is going to turn this into a 45 low on synthetic.
If he were a 45 low runner he would have run a lot faster than a 46.9 relay leg; and that was in 66 when he ran his fastest 800m. It is just as likely that his speed in 66 was better than it was in 67, and that it was his endurance which improved, to take his Mile best down from 3:51.3 TO 3:51.1.
Yet again, you take it on faith alone that he must have been faster over 400m in 67 than 66. The only evidence that is worth considering is his 400 times in both years, and the above link tells us he was no faster in 67 over that distance.
Coe twice ran much faster 400 relay legs on cinders, 46.3 in 79 and 46.4 in 80, not to mention synthetic legs of 45.5 and 45.6; the latter from a stumbling takeover, where he was practically stationary at his starting point. The overwhelming evidence, backed up by an 800 best 2.6 secs faster, is that Coe was not only faster than Ryun over 400m, regardless of whether it was on cinders/dirt or synthetic, but that Coe is the only 1500 or Mile world record holder with the ability to run a 46 flat or faster open 400m.
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I underestimated Morceli's closing splits. His 3:34.2 finished with a 1:49.4 and 50.6, (not 1:50/51). That gives him 58.8 for 3rd lap and 50.6 for last. That's better than Ryun's 60.0, 50.5, and Morceli was running at a pace 4 secs faster overall.
How you can claim Ryun's was a better run is based purely on your OPINION that Ryun was slowed by 1 sec per lap on cinders. I don't buy this and many more on here don't either.
Bile ran his last 2 laps in a 3:36.8 in 55.4 & 51.5, which again, is at least as impressive as Ryun's run. Bile may have been 1 sec slower in the last lap, but his penultimate 400 was 4.6 secs faster.
Cacho went 58.0, 50.5 in his Olympic winning 3:40.2. So he would have been as fast over the last lap as Ryun, and 2 secs faster in the penultimate lap, albeit in a slightly slower overall time.
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LOL. The way you have knocked off 6 secs from his finishing time and 3.5 secs off his last 800m is not scientific in any way. It is purely wild speculation. And the way you can use a 36.6 all out last 300 in a 3:38 as evidence of this is nonsense.
Morceli was a 3:44.3 Miler, Ryun was a 3:51.1 miler. These are the facts. Yes, Ryun was capable of a lot faster than his pb on a synthetic surface with decent pacing, but not 7 secs faster!!
You're right, a comparison of the two isn't close.
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ROFL.
First port of call maybe, ….. but certainly the WRONG port of call.
That's a lesson for you to learn right there. A contemporary account from the nation in which the race took place, is NO guarantee that it will be accurate.