50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

mo'pak,

Are crocs a concern?

Igy

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

I don't look forward to your fakeness.

Seriously, what is your problem?

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

mo'pak,

Are crocs a concern?

Igy

No we don't have them this far south. No dangerous maneating critters here in Central Victoria.

What a 4th for us here in KC area. Before heading out to the race (which I was going to reluctantly, given that my racing fitness was suspect and my wife is not ready to run 4 miles non-stop, so wouldn't attend), I checked the local weather, and wunderground showed a VERY low (20% or less?) chance of rain prior to the afternoon. Ok, so I paid my fee, and might as well try to score some points for a top 5 finish in my age group.

The race is 5 miles south of my house, and boy, does that dark series of clouds look closer and more ominous. Not to mention that it kept moving in our direction. The rains are just a spit during the national anthem, and turn into a full rain by the first 5 minutes on our narrow exit to the main roads. Nice, slick, tarmac, and downhill! Fortunately, we all stayed upright. At least, those of us one or two hundred that were in front of me (a couple thousand behind me?). Passed through the first, downhill mile in 6:57, then the uphills and the wheels, and the torrential rains caught up to me. Just to finish! In the last mile was passing walkers and dog-walkers that cut the course short, and finished in a 34:16 for 4th in 65-69 (4th on the 4th for the "Four on the 4th" race, crazy!). Of course, the rains let up around that time, too, but we easily received a couple inches in a short time. Anyhow, it's a baseline for me as to beginning my building towards the fall races, esp. the 1/2 marathon in Des Moines.

KP, your "Great Notion" IPA must be from Ken Kesey's book, "Sometimes a Great Notion", nice tribute to some great writing!

Great report, Mike! Sounds like it was a wild ride! I'm disappointed that I couldn't bring myself to get to the starting line this fourth. The knee was feeling good enough that I think I could've competed and probably even placed, but at the risk blowing it up, and being worse in the aftermath. I've been down this road before, and didn't want to risk it. I'll give it a test drive tomorrow.

Allen1959 wrote:

l2b, thanks for keeping this thread going! Going back through the years' of posts, you have admirably dealt with a number of challenges and setbacks. I am looking forward to your return to competition! I've noticed you have been including some slower, off-road running. For week after week, and year after year, I noted you RARELY ran easy 8-minute-plus miles. Like, NEVER! I am a believer in really slow recovery mileage.

Are Club Cross Nationals in Kentucky this year? Maybe that's something I can shoot for! If I can get/stay healthy. A brew or two sounds good, too!

-Allen

Thanks, Allen. First off, yes they are in Kentucky. I'm excited for them, and am starting to think about getting our local 50+ team (though decidedly not nationally competitive) together. Although there are a couple of guys that if I can get them on board we may not be the bottom-dwellers.

As for the running and recovery stuff, I really appreciate your feedback, and I can't really argue with you on this. May or may not be the case that I don't do enough recovery stuff. One difference to think about is that I've posted every week on this thread for the past xx years (and there was a weekly thread before this that went several years where I posted every week on that, too.) So you have a pretty complete history of all my running ups and downs. A lot of folk don't post when they're not running for whatever reason; I've tried to be open and honest about what I've done. I don't think I've been down and out as much as it may appear, I'm just more open about it.

That said, I also do a lot of walking. When I have an "off" day, that still includes at least 3-miles of walking. Does that count as recovery? I think it does, but I don't post all the walking I do, maybe I should. If I'm wrong that this isn't recovery, then so be it. Also, during this last "streak" there are plenty of miles that are over 8-min/mi (not that I'm sure why 8 is the magic number.) If there is a shortcoming that I will own up to, it's that I'm not doing enough ancillary stuff (squats, lunges, etc.) to work on my core strength.

Again, truly appreciate the feedback. And I will give it some serious thought. My easy runs go mostly by feel, not by pace, so maybe I need to find some runners to run with that will keep me from putting too much effort (even if I don't feel taxed) into the easy stuff. Thanks.

Cheers!

My version of KP's recommended workout one, which I ran his morning on tired legs.

2 x 400m @ 1:41, 1:42; 1,200m @ 5:09, 2 x 400m @ 1:34, 1:32

Wanted better, but that's what I got.

Igy

I wanted to know why you stalk an innocent poster, but ^that's^ what I got.

lucKY2b wrote:

... I don't think I've been down and out as much as it may appear, I'm just more open about it.

... I also do a lot of walking. When I have an "off" day, that still includes at least 3-miles of walking. Does that count as recovery?

Ahhh, I didn't mean to imply that you've been sidelined a lot. On the contrary, your consistency has been impressive. The few times over all these years that there have been issues, you've worked through them, and returned at a high level. And you're right: posting your training and racing every single week has generously allowed us to accurately follow along, including any of the bumps along the way.

Also, my observation regarding the pace of recovery runs was only that: something I noticed and kind of marveled at as I reviewed all those years of posts. No correlation intended! Nothing magical about 8-minute miles, just for me that's sort of the dividing line between running "easy," and running "with effort." Well, it used to be. More like 8:30 or 9:00 now. And, yeah, I have noticed your easy runs have slowed a little, too! BTW, I agree walking is great recovery.

I'm with you regarding the ancillary stuff: just not consistent enough with it. Core work. Balance. Stretching. For me, it's a lack of patience. I want to be moving. Going somewhere. Forward progress. I think biking is helping with my current knee woes, but I'm losing the battle unless I invest time in other strength and stretching routines. But they're SO boring!

Dunno about XC Nationals. It's tempting to look into it. Not sure I would want to run "unattached." I know GVH in my former hometown sometimes puts together a competitive senior team. Maybe TOO competitive for my talent level ... and I don't know what the rules would be for out-of-towners to join ...

Mike Lundgren wrote:

Of course, the rains let up around that time, too, but we easily received a couple inches in a short time.

Ah, your race report brings back such memories of my time in Kansas. I never saw a funnel cloud in four years there, but I have never before or since seen rain come down at the rate it can there. We still refer to it as "Kansas rain", but we never see it here in California.

icars wrote:

I wanted to know why you stalk an innocent poster, but ^that's^ what I got.

I thought I could get closer to 5:00 on the 1,200m but I was happy to get the 400m just about spot on the last set. I believe in a couple of weeks the times on the longer reps will come down and be "that's what I got."

Igy

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Week 318

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Greetings, 50+er's! Disappointed to say that I took the week off. In the grand scheme of things, that's not such a bad thing, but unplanned breaks are never what you want. Knee is still a tad wonky; rolling out the quads has helped. Mostly just been walking with periodic 15-20s jog spurts. Didn't keep track of the miles or time, but probably averaged around 3 miles/day. I'll give it a true test run later today. If all goes well, I'll ease back into full running over the course of the next week or two.

How about y'all? Any July 4th races to report? I know that the 15K Boilermaker up in Syracuse is this morning; one of my training buddies is racing it. He should finish under an hour, I would think.

OK, that's the short of it for this week. Hope you've had a good one!

All the Best!

Igy... nice workout. Try this one if you wish...

warm-up really well then do 2 sets of 600-400-200 at 1500 race goal pace for 600-400 and 800 pace for 200. If i had a stronger base (aerobic tank) this track year i would do 3 sets. Again aim to run set #2 quicker (neg splits) but don't sandbag set #1. Rest is 400 or 600 jog depending on your fitness.

KP

Greetings, friends!

After three consecutive 53-mile weeks, I backed way off this past week as my knee pain increased. And that little achilles niggle I had hoped to keep in check (with ice and heel dips) became downright painful. So frustrating as I had hoped to increase and hold mpw at close to 60 for the entire summer.

Initially, I was happy with Friday's Lactate Threshold repeats, but my log shows this same workout from April was about 4 seconds per mile faster. Somewhat disturbing to be regressing in fitness.

More disturbing is that after that LT workout, I had a sleepless night due to knee and achilles pain. Not good! And that was after icing and taking 800mg of ibuprofen ...

But I enjoyed a nice bike ride yesterday. Very slow into a strong headwind, but so fun on the return trip, cruising for miles at 24 mph on a smooth, flat, low-traffic state highway!

I love my bicycle. Beautiful hand-built steel frame from the mid-90s (framebuilder Rob Stowe) ... I bought it used many years ago from the original owner's widow. Campy Chorus group, carbon fiber seat post and fork. The dead guy must have been a helluva strong rider -- lowest gear is 49 inches (42 chainring, 23 sprocket). At my normal cadence, that translates to a minimum speed of 14 mph. Fortunately, not many big hills nearby.

It was embarrassing on my few club rides because it looked like I was hot-dogging up the major climbs ... but with that gearing, I would "stall" if I dropped below 12 mph! Highest gear is 117 inches (52x12), which I've only used a few times. In fact, I almost never use the large chainring ... but yesterday I did, flying along with that tailwind ...

My training week:

JULY 3-9, 2017:

Easy:Bike 23.8 miles @ 18.6 mph

LR2: 14.0 miles @ 8:24/mi avg (progression 10:32/mi to 6:54/mi); bike 7 miles; kayak 3 miles

Easy:Bike 26.8miles @ 18.5 mph

Easy: 3.0 miles @ 9:31/mi

LT: 2-mi warmup; 3 x 2 miles w/2-min recoveries @6:36/mi, @6:33/mi, @6:30/mi; 1.5-mi cooldown

Easy:Bike 35.3 miles @ 17.6 mph

Off

WEEK TOTAL: 26.5 MILES

2017 Racing

5K: 18:57 April 2 (6:06/mi)

Half Marathon: 1:28:41 April 30 (6:46/mi)

Marathon Goal: 3:05:00 (7:03/mi) Target race October 1st

Well, I hope everyone on the mend heals up quickly, myself included. And that you healthy folks stay that way, and enjoy your training and racing!

Today was the Utica Boilermaker 15K. For years that was on my wife's and my bucket list, but we never got it on our schedule. I think now it's such a big event, it doesn't hold much appeal for me. Still hoping to run a local 15K in four weeks, however. It's been 30 years since I last raced that distance.

Have a great week!

-Allen

I haven't posted for a few weeks due to travel and password issues. The highlights of my time away were finishing 5th O.A. and 1st master in a 10k road/trail race (I even beat a 12 year-old boy) in the U.P. and working the Elite Hospitality area at Peachtree where I escorted the Elite runners from the finish to the awards/breakfast area. I got to meet Jordan Hasay, Sarah Pagano, Chris Derrick, and Bernard Lagat, among others. I enjoyed speaking with them but I felt ancient when they called me "ma'am!

My running had been going well until this week when I had two days where I just couldn't get though my easy runs. The humidity and heat has been bad so I hope that's the problem. After a few miles, my heart felt like it was pounding out of my chest. I had to walk a few miles home twice. Fortunately, this morning the weather felt better and I made it through a track workout without any problems. Here was my week:

Sun: 7.1 E Hills

Mon: 5 E Peachtree set-up

Tue: off Peachtree Race

Weds: 7.2 Track 2 mi w/u, 1 mi 5k pace (7:21)/800 jog,2x200/200 jog, 800 @ 3k pace (7:15), 2x200/200 jog, 2 mi c/d + 1700 swim

Thu: 7 E + 15 mi biking

Fri: 5.3 E (supposed to be 7)

Sat: 7.3 E (supposed to be 10)

I'm headed to Baton Rouge on Wednesday where I'll be racing the 5,000, 10,000, steeple, 800, and 4x800. My team is trying to win the national title so scoring points is the goal. I'm sure not trying to PR; Louisiana in July isn't the place I'd pick to run distance events. Hope to see some of you there!

I would call my piriformis strain about 70% recovered this week. I was able to get out every day this week and cover some distance, but a lot more of it was walking rather than running. Yesterday was finally back to at least an easy workout. I am hoping to be back to normal training by the end of next week. 46.5 miles total

M- 6.5 walk/run hills

T- 8 walk/run barefoot on the beach

W- 7 walk/run

Th- 3.5 walk/run (tired)

F- 6.5 walk/run hills

S- 8 walk/run barefoot on the beach

Su- 7 walk/run

@L2B You are the ROCK! Keeping this place going while posting thru all of the emotional places running takes us is much appreciated. Yes I am guilty of being a fair weather poster but not more I promise!

@Allen Stowe Phase 3 steel is real. Mine is down the frame collecting dust but one of these days I will build her back up. Gearing I use the combination of large chain ring with a large mountain bike cassette. On some frames like my Ridley Crossfire frame I can get a really good chainline on big to big. Since the purpose of riding the bike is to supplement running I stay out of the saddle most of the time. This is where the big gears with lots of chain on the teeth help, especially on hills.

@SCgal good luck at Nationals wish I had signed up.

Start of Round 2 went well. Rest was the emphasis.

3 days off

4 days on the treadmill hiking hills. Three easy one hard.

1+ mile at 10.2 mph of running on the mill at the end of a 2 hour workout. This run felt amazing. I was only going to do a minute or so but just kept going because if felt effortless.

Typical hard 2 hour uphill workout on the treadmill:

3.6 mph increasing the grade from 8 to 21 percent. Calorie burn of 1648 and elevation gain 4641.

Back to planning mode with 2 goals/peaks over the next year. Early spring to try and break 5 in the mile and USATF Nationals in Spokane 1500 early August. Something like 5 months of base hiking hills but keep some running in there 2 to 4 miles a week of easy quality. Then follow something like I just did for the last 4 months. A few races then back off until mid June then peak August 2nd.

Weight 139.6 first time under 140 in 8 years!

@ allen1959, lucky2b best on healing up

@ SCgal good luck at USATF

@ KP I'll give that workout a try this week; thanks for the ideas

I have geared up my pace this week, but found I need more rest to absorb the training. I planned to run a hard workout Saturday but just did not have the energy. My week:

Monday: 2 miles easy; form drills; 10 x 150m repetition to fast pace @ 37.5 to 29 (I started at mile pace and finished at 400m pace); mile easy

Tuesday: 3.5 mile walk

Wednesday: posted workout earlier, with standard warm-up and cool-down

Thursday: 60:00 spin; core routine

Friday: 2 miles easy; 16 x 100m 2 easy, 2 good

Saturday: 2 miles easy; 4 x 100m repetition pace @ 21-22 / 20m walk

2 x 400m repetition pace @ 1:36, 1:31 / 400m walk

Sunday: 3.5 mile walk

Igy

old guy II wrote:

I would call my piriformis strain about 70% recovered this week. I was able to get out every day this week and cover some distance, but a lot more of it was walking rather than running. Yesterday was finally back to at least an easy workout. I am hoping to be back to normal training by the end of next week. 46.5 miles total

M- 6.5 walk/run hills

T- 8 walk/run barefoot on the beach

W- 7 walk/run

Th- 3.5 walk/run (tired)

F- 6.5 walk/run hills

S- 8 walk/run barefoot on the beach

Su- 7 walk/run

I'm doing much better as well. The sciatica pain has faded and my glute pain is easing. I'm walking rather than running. Walked 4 miles 5 days this past week. Looking forward to getting back to normal and working on my fitness!

@SCgal, good luck on your upcoming races! I have agree about Louisiana.

@Allen1959, enjoy hearing about your bike rides. I am the world's weakest cyclist but I enjoy it anyway, even if I'd rather be running. My husband, until recently a serious masters time trialist, has a bunch of bikes including a lovely custom-built steel-frame bike from the 90's that he still rides quite a bit. Two years ago I traded in my now 18-year-old aluminum-frame Cannondale road bike for a modern Specialized Tarmac, which is a lovely bike. Nothing wrong with it except the engine...

I didn't run a step this week hoping that my Achilles would settle down. However, I did do a major hiking trip one day which is probably at least as hard on my heel as a reasonably long run on the flats.

Monday: 33 miles on bike

Tuesday (4th of July): 41 miles on bike

Wednesday: 11 mile hike with 2000 feet of gain/loss at an average elevation around 7500 feet. Terrain ranged from smooth dirt to mud to bare granite slabs to loose sharp broken rocks. Didn't care for the broken rocks and cared for it even less on my dog's feet, but he showed no sign of being sore.

Thurs: 27 miles on bike, still pretty dehydrated from the hike

Fri: 32 miles on bike.

Sat: 37 miles on bike.

Sun: 42 miles on bike.

Tomorrow I have an appointment with an orthopedist about my Achilles heel. It will be interesting to see what he has to say.