Sub 50 speed, skinny, but terrible at 5k--HELP!

no, it's not a pipe dream at all...

up the mileage to 45-55, with a session of intervals at 5k pace (at least 800m reps, 4000-6000m total) and a session of 4-7 miles at a fairly hard pace (threshold work). Longer hill sessions or hill fartleks could be helpful as well. 50 miles a week with 3 good threshold/interval workouts is far better than 70 miles a week of jogging. Make sure to keep some type of max speed workouts as well.

Personally, I would focus on the 800m or maybe 1500m.

Think about what you are asking. You can only looking for an excuse not to do the work.

Suppose someone tells you that sub 15 is a pipe dream even if you run 70+. Suppose EVERYONE says it. What is that going to do? Are you going to quit and not bother?

The simple fact is, nobody can tell you. Nobody. Oh I'm sure people here will offer their opinions but they don't know. You might have the potential for no better than 17. You might have the ability for sub 13. Seriously, nobody f***ing knows.

HEre's what to do:

1. Turn off you computer.

2. Decide.

3. Do

Decide if you want to find out how good you can be and go out and DO IT. Do not ever ask here what you can do. Nobody here is qualified to tell you that. No one from the biggest troll to even malmo or jtupper can tell you that.

Maybe you should focus on the 400m and 800m.

Uh...take a look at what decent runners do. They run a lot.

Go run a lot and post again in a year.

Do you run twice a day? No, you do not. Why not?

dunno wrote:

I've been running for almost a year now consistently at about 30-35 mpw (all easy miles). But I can't break 18 for 5k!

Easy miles are for endurance and recovery, but other than that they don't do much to improve your pace for a race.

What kind of sessions have you done to lower your 400 time?

I would develop a session for the 5k, directed around your 5k pace, and modulate the rests for the decrease in the pace. Have you done any 5k sessions the past year? With a 49.8 for 400, you have a lot of potential for lowering your time for the 5k.

Ok thanks for all the responses--it definitely seems that I'm simply not running enough.

To the previous poster, to lower my 400m times I did 400m training...to maintain that speed while doing easy miles I've done strides after easy runs plus some all out sprints. I'm not sure what I could run for 400m right now, but definitely in the ballpark of 50 flat.

I dunno, it just seemed weird to me that despite a year of (somewhat) developing a base, I couldn't even run under 18.

The reason I'm not running the 400/800 is because I'm a post-collegiate. There aren't any good 400m meets out there for someone of my caliber (aka not elite).

Thanks for all the advice.

What are your other pr's?

Sub 50 speed is a rare gift, unfortunately for most people their 400 speed (as long as it is not ridiculously bad ie 60+ seconds) has little bearing on your 5k. The only 5k people who need crazy 400 speed are the elites.

That being said, sub 15 is definitely not a pipe dream. Given your build and natural foot speed it is a good goal. Look for a track club to join. If that is not an option read through some of the better threads on here or buy a copy of Daniels Running Formula. It will take probably 18-24 months, but definitely possible.

If you still have sub 50 speed and eventually get to being a sub 15 5k guy, well then the sky is the limit over 1500m.

dunno wrote:

To the previous poster, to lower my 400m times I did 400m training...to maintain that speed while doing easy miles I've done strides after easy runs plus some all out sprints. I'm not sure what I could run for 400m right now, but definitely in the ballpark of 50 flat.

I dunno, it just seemed weird to me that despite a year of (somewhat) developing a base, I couldn't even run under 18.

To run a fast 400 you did 400 training. To run the 5k you need to do 5k training, not just strides after easy runs.

What kind of 5k sessions have you been doing? Examples might be 10x 400 with 400 jogs, or 5x 1200 with 400 slow jogs.

Not to burst your bubble but you might just be a fast twitch guy. I'm a fast twitch guy, skinny (in my youth). I can also tell you that the longer distances get easier as you age. There are a lot of races around here for the sub 50 400 m guy particularly during the indoor season if you don't mind running against collegians. If there is a college nearby, you could probably find some races.

J.R. wrote:

To run a fast 400 you did 400 training. To run the 5k you need to do 5k training, not just strides after easy runs.

What kind of 5k sessions have you been doing? Examples might be 10x 400 with 400 jogs, or 5x 1200 with 400 slow jogs.

Like I said, I haven't done any "5k sessions". I know that I shouldn't expect to run a blazing 5k time off this training.

So it's not like I'm expecting to run sub 15 right now--but 18? shouldn't this not be too difficult?

your not a 5k guy, get over it. you run sub 50, your a middle of the pack average 400m guy who didnt have all the tools. sorry

dunno wrote:

I haven't done any "5k sessions". I know that I shouldn't expect to run a blazing 5k time off this training.

So it's not like I'm expecting to run sub 15 right now--but 18? shouldn't this not be too difficult?

18 is quite good for coming from a 1/4 mile background. There was a guy on our team in junior college who won state in 46/21 something, and almost died when the coach had him run a 3 mile loop in 24 minutes. There are a lot of people who jog around, and run 5k's in slower than 18 minutes. To run faster you need to challenge yourself consistently around 5k pace like you have for one lap. I am confident you can do it, and disagree with those who suggest that you can't.

Thanks for all the positive advice.

Today I did my first "tempo run" -- it was absolutely agonizing and terrible. Perhaps I ran it too fast, but I started out with a 2 straight 6 flat miles, and then the pace quickly dropped down...last mile (out of 5) was almost nearing 7.

Not at all an all-out effort, but pretty damn tough for me. Hopefully there will come a day when sub 6's don't feel quite so bad.

Once again, thanks, and any other advice/motivation/negativity is welcome.

You might be just a mediocre sprinter. On the other hand, the best 5 k runners in the world have your kind of 400 speed. They also have good lung capacity, aerobic capacity, endurance, etc. At this stage, you just can't tell if you've got what it takes. Not enough data. Run more, run faster. Don't get injured. Good luck.

dunno wrote:

Thanks for all the positive advice.

Today I did my first "tempo run" -- it was absolutely agonizing and terrible. Perhaps I ran it too fast, but I started out with a 2 straight 6 flat miles, and then the pace quickly dropped down...last mile (out of 5) was almost nearing 7.

If you can't break 18 minutes for a 5k, then 6:00/mile for 2 straight tempo miles is way too fast to be called a "tempo run". I'm not saying that you shouldnt run that fast, I'm just saying that you shouldnt call it a tempo run.

Try some progression runs. 3-5 miles. Start at 7:00/7:20, then drop 10/15 seconds off of each mile as you go on. Kick it in. Do this once or twice a week.

If you can run run a 49.8 400m but can't break 18 for 5k, something is wrong with your pacing. I don't care how many fast twitch, slow twitch, red fibers, white fibers or whatever you have. At that speed for 400m, you should be able to break 18 for 5k even without distance training. I'd be willing to bet that you're starting out way too fast.

Stick to the 400m or middle distances

Hypothetically, of course!

What is your e-mail?