Jamaica 2009-USA 2009 parallels are uncanny

i have to take a crap so bad. im prarie doggin here

spot on!

A nation of 2.8 million people shouldn't be capable of producing depth at the world class level.

Your comparison is actually exactly as it should be - Jamaica achieving at the same level as the US, nevermind higher, should have red flags waving all over.

That isn't an "America is the best and must win everything" attitude, it's just the simple reality of the numbers.

Perspective wrote:

A nation of 2.8 million people shouldn't be capable of producing depth at the world class level.

Why thank you!

We also shoudln't be capable of producing reggae music, which has enjoyed world penetration similar to blues, funk, rock and jazz.

We also shouldn't be capable of producing a bob-sled team, which started out as a joke and which happened to beat the United States, Russia, France and Italy in the 94 Winter Olympics.

my life is now complete...someone referenced cool runnings in a serious context on letsrun to counter a track and field argument.

noice.

Excuse I!

Rastafarianism!

A DVD of Cool Runnings!

http://www.hulu.com/watch/40968/saturday-night-live-digital-short-ras-trent

in history the other day we learned about how the best slaves went to the caribbean

If you're going to drop a comment that, if true, could indicate a legitimate genetic basis for why Jamaicans achieve as they do, you need to support it.

The reflexive argument when looking critically at the Jamaican medal tally versus population is to say PEDs, but that isn't a completely satisfactory explanation itself. New information would be useful.

I've read books on the slave trade, and I haven't seen corroboration of the strongest/healthiest slaves being destined for the caribbean. I'm very curious and open to new information if you have something more than an anecdote, but this isn't Beck or Olbermann where some dubious snippet can just be thrown out as true and snowballed into broader conclusions.

I believe Jamaica can produce in track like they have been recently. Track is a religion there.

That's nice, but I don't really care what you believe, I care what you can prove with facts and statistics.

For example:

Slave descendant population in Jamaica - 2.5 million

Slave descendant population in the US - ~40 million

Participation rates and resultant number of potential athletes

Jamaica - 80%? - 2 million

US - 10%? - 4 million

(note - I have no idea what those actually are)

Are there genetic differences in the populations? If so, what and how?

Do developmental differences exist by starting at earlier ages?

Is coaching and training different in Jamiaca so as to create and advantage?

incentives wrote:

That's nice, but I don't really care what you believe, I care what you can prove with facts and statistics.

incentives wrote:

(note - I have no idea what those actually are)

Fact: you're an idiot.

The really interesting part is that almost all of America's world class sprinters are coming from three states (texas, florida and california-check the nationals results if you don't believe me).

Perspective wrote:

A nation of 2.8 million people shouldn't be capable of producing depth at the world class level.

Your comparison is actually exactly as it should be - Jamaica achieving at the same level as the US, nevermind higher, should have red flags waving all over.

That isn't an "America is the best and must win everything" attitude, it's just the simple reality of the numbers.

How many Jamaican kids are doing soccer, lacrosse, hockey, basketball, baseball, gymanstics, football, dance, or wrestling?

12345 wrote:

Perspective wrote:

A nation of 2.8 million people shouldn't be capable of producing depth at the world class level.

Your comparison is actually exactly as it should be - Jamaica achieving at the same level as the US, nevermind higher, should have red flags waving all over.

That isn't an "America is the best and must win everything" attitude, it's just the simple reality of the numbers.

How many Jamaican kids are doing soccer, lacrosse, hockey, basketball, baseball, gymanstics, football, dance, or wrestling?

How many young black kids are doing soccer, lacrosse, hockey, gymnastics, dance, or wrestling?

Just saying...

were they born in these states or just attended school there.

Big difference.

It looks like they were born there (or at least grew up there). I was just skimming the athletes that placed in the sprint events. My point was just because athletes from a particular region dominate does not mean there is a genetic advantage or something suspicious.

A lot of people here clearly don't understand the numbers and what constitutes a small discrepancy versus a huge anomaly.

The population of Jamaica is SO small compared with what should be a group of similar athletes in the US, that when the performances are at all comparable, you have to ask what gives the Jamaicans a leg up.

Something is different. Given the recent results it HAS to be. This isn't like 3 of the 4 most populous (and warm weather) states producing the most US sprinters. What Jamaica has done would be more comparable to West Virginia and Mississippi being the dominant sprinting locations in the US.

Participation rates are definitely one piece. I don't know what those are, but clearly more potential sprinters are found and developed in Jamaica than in the US.

Does that alone overcome at 16 to 1 population disadvantage (among West African descendant populations)?

No one has quantified that or other plausible explanations such as early development, coaching, or something intrinsic like genetics. The best people have come up with is opinion and name calling.

So it must be PEDS? The big pot calling the little kettle black. Why are some of the USA's main sprinters also Jamaican or of Jamaican descent? What effect does it have when you have strong sprinters (Jamaica) who were being bested by PED users (USA) all along, then you pull out the chemical advantage... who rises to the top?

You clearly don't understand numbers and probability. What is the probability that Jamaicans are so advanced that they have created chemicals capable of the results you now witness? The USA had decades of perfecting PEDs and the cloaking of them. Even at the height of PED use, they were unable to produce dominance so consistent as Jamaica now has. Are you saying that in a time when chemicals use is in world focus (enter Bejing's no dope policy, etc.), little Jamaican has suddenly found a way to best the masters and remain under the radar.

Asafa Powell was breaking records before Usain hopped onto the world scene. Having both these sprinters in the camp is a huge advantage to Jamaica and that factor is only bested by the USA's inability to dope. That level playing field is Jamaica's biggest advantage! Usain single-handedly is responsible for most of the medals. If this wasn't the case Tyson Gay would have walked away with the 100m gold. Now throw in the women and strip the USA of PEDS. The USA's saving grace this season was another Jamaican (Sanya Richards), can you explain that too? Crunch those number and probabilities in your head before you spout off with this tired mode of thinking. Your's is only the 20th post saying the same bullshit.

Be fair... wrote:

How many Jamaican kids are doing soccer, lacrosse, hockey, basketball, baseball, gymanstics, football, dance, or wrestling How many young black kids are doing soccer, lacrosse, hockey, gymnastics, dance, or wrestling?

Just saying...

While I support your argument, Soccer is the main sport followed by track and field. Field hockey is also widely played along with basketball and netball (basketball with no dribbling played by females). Rounders,the British version of baseball is also very popular.