Uninsured Americans to pay $42k-$75k for Covid care. Insured to pay a portion of $22k-$38k (IF in network). Canadians pay $0.00

Greg Randolph wrote:

You are now 9/44 on countries. Not even close to half (aka having an argument). More universal healthcare countries are doing better than America re: covid19 outcomes, much more. You lose.

You're still 0/44 on cost though. We'll wait. Keep searching...

The countries with the worst results, by far, fighting Covid19 have universal healthcare. Spin that however you want, that's the reality.

Precious Roy wrote:

And for all the talk about the Canadian health care system barely being able to keep up with demand, it is certainly interesting that Canada's rate of COVID 19 per million is less than half the US rate. That is largely because Canadians understand that they are all connected via their health system and take COVID 19 restrictions seriously.

Hate to beat up on you here Roy but I hope you're not trying to maker the argument for socialized healthcare in the US. If you are this has to be the most hilariously naive argument for I have ever seen.

There has never been a social entitlement program issued by the US government that the people have respected and not abused. The idea that we'd suddenly behave differently because of universal healthcare is absurd, in fact the opposite would happen and people would start to go in for nonsense and take crap care of themselves and expect the healthcare system to take care of them. Look at any social program from welfare to social security. Those who get don't suddenly become more responsible citizens because of some social covenant. They just look for loopholes to get a bigger entitlement then complain about how what is provided is not enough.

another runner wrote:

If you're not paying out of pocket for health care then you or someone else is paying for it in another way.

If the government is paying for your health care then they are just getting that money through your taxes. Where do you think that money comes from? The healthy end up paying for the sick. Most of the time, the sick made bad decisions (like smoking) that lead to their bad health. Why should the healthy have to be penalized for that?

In a true capitalist system the health insurance would compete for your business through a better insurance product. However, most of the time government regulations completely ruin this and turn it into the worst of both worlds.

You do realize you are part of a society at the moment? For instance your premium is determined by the likelihood of you needing treatment based upon the need others have experienced.

The one thing that I am now convinced of after reading through this thread is that Greg Randolph is clueless. Please stop. The US health care system is expensive. Why is that Greg? Need some help?

Amen, and Amen!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62kxPyNZF3Q

Just substitute country for company. Instead of stock holders, substitute citizens.

The truth is that the vast majority of the people who are dying are individuals that have been draining the Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid systems of this country for far too long ("they didn't care about you, they sucked you dry"). Modern medicine has created a lot of marvelously expensive ways to keep people who have taken poor care of their bodies alive and destroying the social programs that will not be there for us as we age older. "Let's have the intelligence, let's have the decency, to sign the death certificate, collect the insurance and invest in something with a future" (Namely our youth, as the $2 trillion a year in debt we are incurring will take away from their future). I'm not your best friend. I'm your only friend.

Sadly for us Americans Trump is beta.

https://images.app.goo.gl/j2Z5FFc6hScwxw818

https://images.app.goo.gl/X4bdJYphYX2e8E5e7

Can we get a comparison on care quality and wait times? In Canada it can take up to a year just to get a simple blood test that can be scheduled and done within a week in the US. If you watch the hidden camera videos done by Steven Crowder you'll see canadian healthcare workers recommending that you just get private insurance and there are people who lost limbs because of the wait times. The healthcare system needs to be fixed but universal healthcare is moronic. Nothing is free. You will pay more in taxes for s*** healthcare.

canada is beta wrote:

The one thing that I am now convinced of after reading through this thread is that Greg Randolph is clueless. Please stop. The US health care system is expensive. Why is that Greg? Need some help?

Care to explain the skyrocket in insurance prices after the passing of the Affordable care act?

Erm... wrote:

Actually, life expectancy etc is higher in Canada than the U.S, so that blows that one out of the water.

Life expectancy can't be solely attributed to healthcare. Different countries have different practices. Tons and tons of Americans eat only processed food.

Greg Randolph wrote:

I don't live in America. It's your path. And an ignorant one. There's 12,000 confirmed cases in the country where I live and 120,000,000 people. That's because there's universal Healthcare and people never hesitate to do the right thing. They don't wait it out to avoid ridiculous bills while infecting others. See: America

Keep the vaccine. You need them more than any other country. You're welcome.

The sanctimony here....

We will continue to research and develop lifesaving cures, even for people who don't appreciate it.

appleswan wrote:

Precious Roy wrote:

My dad lives in Vermont. He and my step mother are old. My dad is 82 and my stepmother is 75. They are both in pretty good health for their age, but have plenty of pills they have to take for various conditions. Even with medicare and supplemental benefits, they go to Canada every few months to buy all their prescriptions and save about $4,000.00 a year.

And for all the talk about the Canadian health care system barely being able to keep up with demand, it is certainly interesting that Canada's rate of COVID 19 per million is less than half the US rate. That is largely because Canadians understand that they are all connected via their health system and take COVID 19 restrictions seriously.

This.

Citizens understand the link between the health of others and their own health.

People here are really not very smart . Half the deaths are in NY and NJ. States where millions s people live on top of each other and they both states have near socialized medicine for those that don’t have insurance.

Nothing like NJ it NYC exist in Canada. Compare to the same population density in another date and US rates are same or lower.

Harambe wrote:

Greg Randolph wrote:

I don't live in America. It's your path. And an ignorant one. There's 12,000 confirmed cases in the country where I live and 120,000,000 people. That's because there's universal Healthcare and people never hesitate to do the right thing. They don't wait it out to avoid ridiculous bills while infecting others. See: America

Keep the vaccine. You need them more than any other country. You're welcome.

The sanctimony here....

We will continue to research and develop lifesaving cures, even for people who don't appreciate it.

Right now I’d say the most likely vaccine is coming from Oxford, not in the US.

TheRunningTroll wrote:

canada is beta wrote:

The one thing that I am now convinced of after reading through this thread is that Greg Randolph is clueless. Please stop. The US health care system is expensive. Why is that Greg? Need some help?

Care to explain the skyrocket in insurance prices after the passing of the Affordable care act?

ACA?

Eh what, Trump has been in charge for three and a half years, he repealed and replaced it you butt hurt Lib.

Research wrote:

Despite all of this, you fail to realize that the US is MILES ahead of any other country in terms of medical research. All these cures that Canada happens to implement well are developed in the US. 40% of biomedical research journals published in 2009 came from the US.

Yes, because English is the world's language. Not surprising that English speaking countries, with a publish-or-perish academic system, out-publish the others.

But I should point out that Brits, with their evil universal healthcare and penny-pinching government that tries to get cheap drugs for its citizens at the expense of drug company profits, out-researches the USA per capita according to the exact same article.

TheRunningTroll wrote:

canada is beta wrote:

The one thing that I am now convinced of after reading through this thread is that Greg Randolph is clueless. Please stop. The US health care system is expensive. Why is that Greg? Need some help?

Care to explain the skyrocket in insurance prices after the passing of the Affordable care act?

ACA forced providers to accept applications from people they previously would refuse. Therefore their running costs increased as they were paying out more often.

What you were paying before was artificially low because the insurers were only covering lower-risk customers

Primo Numero Uno wrote:

But if you have a serious life-threatening disease, it is way better to be in America than any of the socialized medical care countries.

Really? How do you know? Have you tried it in several?

I had a serious stroke, and was in one of the best teaching hospitals in the UK within 40 minutes. Brain scanned within the hour. 3 days in a hyper-acute unit, 3 more in my local hospital, a year of followup tests. I don't even know the notional cost, but they will spend just about any amount to make sure I am not in there again. Most countries in Europe are about the same.

Biggest single cost: my wife had to pay about $20 for parking in the hospital the first time, before she figured out the permit. And I pay about $10 per month for my share of ongoing medicines.

Healthcare in the USA sucks.

That’s the reality. It’s a human right, not a commodity.

uh no? wrote:

Its literally illegal to have private insurance in Canada, ever tried to pay for surgery out of pocket?

It is literally not? The public healthcare plan does not cover all medical expenses. Each province decides what specific services are covered and to what extent/in what situations.

For example, most provinces do not cover physio, optometry, dentistry, mental health services, ambulances (non-ER situations), and out-of-country/province expenses except literal ER visits. Most Canadians have some kind of private insurance as a bump-up through their employer or school (which is paid for indirectly as it is added to your tuition or taken out of your salary).

There are also private clinics for certain elective services, or practitioners who do dual private/public services. Plastic surgery is an example - you can get an elective boob job and pay for it yourself, but if you get breast cancer and have a masectomy it is covered (at least, where I've lived).

Admittedly, there are long wait lists for certain specialists if you live in a rural area and cannot travel. There is also a shortage of family doctors, especially in rural areas. However, if you are very very sick you will get seen right away. I have a chronic medical condition, and I've heard from many Americans with the same condition say that they were put on a 6-12+ month waitlist to see a specialist. I saw one within 3 months.

Got your alpha and beta confused, Skippy. And how did America's worst healthcare work out for covid19? Asking for 330 million Americans paying more for worst outcomes

↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓

time com/2888403/u-s-health-care-ranked-worst-in-the-developed-world/

health.usnews com/wellness/health-buzz/articles/2017-07-17/report-us-has-the-worst-health-care-system-compared-to-these-countries

newsweek com/united-states-health-care-rated-worst

newscientist com/article/2140698-us-ranked-worst-healthcare-system-while-the-nhs-is-the-best/

politifact com/factchecks/2019/mar/18/tulsi-gabbard/yes-americans-spend-ton-health-care-worst-outcomes/

beckershospitalreview com/hospital-management-administration/us-healthcare-worst-in-the-developed-world-study-finds.html