Uninsured Americans to pay $42k-$75k for Covid care. Insured to pay a portion of $22k-$38k (IF in network). Canadians pay $0.00

Greg Randolph wrote:

And how did all that research turn out for America's covid19 disaster. Uh huh.

And how did that research give America the worst healthcare in the developed world. Right.

Not exactly the path you want to take here. You'll most likely be taking American developed therapeutics or an American vaccine for COVID.

You can thank us later. We'll look past these transgressions for now.

I don't live in America. It's your path. And an ignorant one. There's 12,000 confirmed cases in the country where I live and 120,000,000 people. That's because there's universal Healthcare and people never hesitate to do the right thing. They don't wait it out to avoid ridiculous bills while infecting others. See: America

Keep the vaccine. You need them more than any other country. You're welcome.

#MedicareForAll

Seriously tho, even if you're a conservative that thinks you're not allowed to like cheaper health care, not tied to employment, you have to be able to see that our for-profit system is gauging us right? That should be a problem that everyone can see.

Neither option in November will go far enough for you & your families in future situations like this. Democrats were really played by thinking they had to nominate Biden to get rid of Trump. Both will continue to schill for the ruling class. Imagine a Congress full of Bernie Sanders types rn? Would we see aid packages that help working people or corporations? Would we be stuck with huge medical bills when we get sick?

Greg Randolph wrote:

I don't live in America. It's your path. And an ignorant one. There's 12,000 confirmed cases in the country where I live and 120,000,000 people. That's because there's universal Healthcare and people never hesitate to do the right thing. They don't wait it out to avoid ridiculous bills while infecting others. See: America

Keep the vaccine. You need them more than any other country. You're welcome.

The US has a lower covid death rate per capita than several countries with universal healthcare.

When I went on vacation in Costa Rica there were several retired Canadians I met who were retired living in Costa Rica because the health care in Canada is so bad. What does that say about your system that people are moving to third world countries for healthcare reasons?

America's healthcare system eats up way more money than it should, this is undeniable. We also spend way too much on end of life care. But if you have a serious life-threatening disease, it is way better to be in America than any of the socialized medical care countries.

newredsun wrote:

What is 30% of 60 to 70 K per year? About 20,000 dollars per year by my math. That's the price of "Free" healthcare for a family of four in a western nation with socialized healthcare.

The icing on the cake is when a payment board(IPAB) under Obama care can deny reimbursement of your treatment when you are elderly, even after you've paid into a government system since you were a teenager; like paying off your mortgage when you retire and having the government take away your house and give it to a younger family.

I guess doing what I want with my body only applies to selling arms, legs and hearts.

Free, my ass, you dumb-asses. Why do you think China and Italy have fared so poorly during this most recent and past flu virus outbreaks?

You can still do with your body what you want. The Canadian and British systems still have an insurance system if you want to pay.

Think of it like private and public education.

Primo Numero Uno wrote:

When I went on vacation in Costa Rica there were several retired Canadians I met who were retired living in Costa Rica because the health care in Canada is so bad. What does that say about your system that people are moving to third world countries for healthcare reasons?

America's healthcare system eats up way more money than it should, this is undeniable. We also spend way too much on end of life care. But if you have a serious life-threatening disease, it is way better to be in America than any of the socialized medical care countries.

Yes down with end-of life-care! After all they aren't going back to work afterwards so what's the point right?

Great points. Thank you. Political will is killing universal healthcare in America.

Both parties are against universal healthcare in 2020 and so are Trump and Biden. The big money owns congress and the select proponents for universal healthcare are very few and only a small fraction of the democratic party.

Both parties know Americans are too stupid to catch on and catch up with the developed world. They can keep lying with faux incremental changes like ACA, Medicare Advantage, Public Option, and whatever other fake versions they can make up to keep supporting multi-payer, private sector funded, garbage systems because they know Americas are too stupid to dig into policy.

The truth is, "Medicare for all" isn't even needed, though it is legitimate universal healthcare. That's just America's name for what the developed world already has. The bottom line is this: No matter what it's called, it needs to be (1) publicly funded, (2) publicly administered, and (3) single-payer. These are the common denominators world wide and without all three requirements, you do not have universal healthcare. Call it what you want.

Democrats' ACA met just 1/3 of these requisites (only publicly administered). Democrats' continued push for "Public option" via Biden also meets just 1/3 of these requirements (only publicly administered). Medicare Advantage meets 1/3 of these requirements (only publicly administered). Need to meet all three requirements to be Universal Healthcare otherwise COST is never lowered to cover everyone. Just more ACCESS to overpriced garbage. Democrats have only wanted more access to unaffordable healthcare while republicans just want unaffordable healthcare. Same BS. Neither party has ever cared about lowering cost. Obamacare faked caring for lowered costs for its first 2 years, when subsidies were in effect, to try to enroll people then the predicted death spiral happened, after the 2 year subsidies ended, and providers left the exchanges when it suited them, jacking up costs further. But Obamacare was always doomed because it is a multi-payer system. Duping people in the first two years to enroll into Obamacare, when costs were lower with gov, subsidies in effect, was setting them up for when they pulled the rug out.

Medicare-for-All DOES meet all three requirements to lower costs that would make healthcare in America truly universal. Cost (developed world), not access (America), determines the universality of healthcare.

Insurance you can't afford (pushed by both parties in America) means you are uninsured in the real world should something happen. Then your real coverage kicks in. Go-fund-me. That's America's current universal plan.

Than "several" universal Healthcare countries per capita. Several being three countries. The other 41 universal healthcare countries are doing better than America, per capita, in covid outcomes.

You: 3/44

Me: 41/44

All 44 countries pay 8-10% of their GDP annually on healthcare. America pays 18%.

You: 0/44

Me: waiting for someone with brains

My dad lives in Vermont. He and my step mother are old. My dad is 82 and my stepmother is 75. They are both in pretty good health for their age, but have plenty of pills they have to take for various conditions. Even with medicare and supplemental benefits, they go to Canada every few months to buy all their prescriptions and save about $4,000.00 a year.

And for all the talk about the Canadian health care system barely being able to keep up with demand, it is certainly interesting that Canada's rate of COVID 19 per million is less than half the US rate. That is largely because Canadians understand that they are all connected via their health system and take COVID 19 restrictions seriously.

Greg Randolph wrote:

Than "several" universal Healthcare countries per capita. Several being three countries. The other 41 universal healthcare countries are doing better than America, per capita, in covid outcomes.

You: 3/44

Me: 41/44

All 44 countries pay 8-10% of their GDP annually on healthcare. America pays 18%.

You: 0/44

Me: waiting for someone with brains

Nope, more than 3

Your move wrote:

Greg Randolph wrote:

I don't live in America. It's your path. And an ignorant one. There's 12,000 confirmed cases in the country where I live and 120,000,000 people. That's because there's universal Healthcare and people never hesitate to do the right thing. They don't wait it out to avoid ridiculous bills while infecting others. See: America

Keep the vaccine. You need them more than any other country. You're welcome.

The US has a lower covid death rate per capita than several countries with universal healthcare.

And far higher than the vast majority of countries in the world.

Your move wrote:

Greg Randolph wrote:

I don't live in America. It's your path. And an ignorant one. There's 12,000 confirmed cases in the country where I live and 120,000,000 people. That's because there's universal Healthcare and people never hesitate to do the right thing. They don't wait it out to avoid ridiculous bills while infecting others. See: America

Keep the vaccine. You need them more than any other country. You're welcome.

The US has a lower covid death rate per capita than several countries with universal healthcare.

And yet far higher than the vast majority of countries in the world.

Harambe wrote:

Greg Randolph wrote:

And how did all that research turn out for America's covid19 disaster. Uh huh.

And how did that research give America the worst healthcare in the developed world. Right.

Not exactly the path you want to take here. You'll most likely be taking American developed therapeutics or an American vaccine for COVID.

You can thank us later. We'll look past these transgressions for now.

Looks like the most likely vaccine will come from Oxford University in England.

Sometimes there is a wait but it depends on the surgery or work needed. A few years back I needed an x-ray to check for a stress fracture. I went to a walk in private clinic but since x-rays are covered by our universal health care it cost me $0 directly. A week later I had a bone scan at the public hospital. Again $0 directly paid.

The nice part about our system is the funding comes from our taxes so we know upfront what portion of our income goes to health care. There is no need to guess how much we'll need for that rainy day.

You are now 9/44 on countries. Not even close to half (aka having an argument). More universal healthcare countries are doing better than America re: covid19 outcomes, much more. You lose.

You're still 0/44 on cost though. We'll wait. Keep searching...

If you're not paying out of pocket for health care then you or someone else is paying for it in another way.

If the government is paying for your health care then they are just getting that money through your taxes. Where do you think that money comes from? The healthy end up paying for the sick. Most of the time, the sick made bad decisions (like smoking) that lead to their bad health. Why should the healthy have to be penalized for that?

In a true capitalist system the health insurance would compete for your business through a better insurance product. However, most of the time government regulations completely ruin this and turn it into the worst of both worlds.

Precious Roy wrote:

My dad lives in Vermont. He and my step mother are old. My dad is 82 and my stepmother is 75. They are both in pretty good health for their age, but have plenty of pills they have to take for various conditions. Even with medicare and supplemental benefits, they go to Canada every few months to buy all their prescriptions and save about $4,000.00 a year.

And for all the talk about the Canadian health care system barely being able to keep up with demand, it is certainly interesting that Canada's rate of COVID 19 per million is less than half the US rate. That is largely because Canadians understand that they are all connected via their health system and take COVID 19 restrictions seriously.

Or maybe its because the Covid virus spreads much more rapidly in major Metro areas especially those that are major business hubs with people traveling in and out of from other countries.

About a Third of all US cases are in a single Metro area where about 1/40th of our population live. Canada is not an international business hub like the US.

Also look at Population density. New York is twice as dense as Canada's densest population center, Vancouver.

You think that proves anything?