HSer Cole Sprout runs 8:49.02 3200 at 5,000+ feet in CO

I’m impressed wrote:

birdbeard wrote:

According to his Instagram. That would break the CO state record (which he owns) by 8 seconds. Might be near sub 8:40 at sea level. Kid is gonna be a beast in college. He has a good mix of speed and strength, reminds me of Goucher. I bet his best event for his first few years will be the 3000 indoors and then he’ll move up to 5000 by the end of college. I don’t really anticipate him being able to hang with Young in XC, but you never know. He is comparatively undertrained, I believe. Nothing overly difficult, I think he averages like 50mpw.

It’s probably worth a sub-8:35 at sea level actually. Did he run it in VaporFlys though?

The adjustment isn't nearly as much for someone that lives at altitude. Been Saarel ran 8:49 at Provo, UT and 8:45 at Arcadia. The advantage of training at altitude is for racing at altitude.

This is a very strong class. 2 kids at least right around 4 minutes. 2 others broke the Virgin record, and the 3,000 m record. And Sprout who looks like 8:35 and close to 4 minutes himself. And others who were very close to Methner at NXN. Deep class.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

The adjustment isn't nearly as much for someone that lives at altitude. Been Saarel ran 8:49 at Provo, UT and 8:45 at Arcadia. The advantage of training at altitude is for racing at altitude.

Really? And this is a question, not a statement. All of the elite runners who train at altitude are wasting their time and money? Or is it just for a small advantage?

FastTuohy wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

The adjustment isn't nearly as much for someone that lives at altitude. Been Saarel ran 8:49 at Provo, UT and 8:45 at Arcadia. The advantage of training at altitude is for racing at altitude.

Really? And this is a question, not a statement. All of the elite runners who train at altitude are wasting their time and money? Or is it just for a small advantage?

I don't think there is much science to back up the claim that the adjustment isn't as much for someone that lives at altitude. It's just an often-repeated line.

Living at altitude doesn't change the fact that there is more oxygen in the air one place than another.

FastTuohy wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

The adjustment isn't nearly as much for someone that lives at altitude. Been Saarel ran 8:49 at Provo, UT and 8:45 at Arcadia. The advantage of training at altitude is for racing at altitude.

Really? And this is a question, not a statement. All of the elite runners who train at altitude are wasting their time and money? Or is it just for a small advantage?

It can't be much. The 3 fastest HS all-time 2-milers and Webb, lived at sea level.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

It can't be much. The 3 fastest HS all-time 2-milers and Webb, lived at sea level.

Maybe they were just better? Or maybe they would have been even faster if they trained at elevation? I don't think you really answered the question.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

FastTuohy wrote:

Really? And this is a question, not a statement. All of the elite runners who train at altitude are wasting their time and money? Or is it just for a small advantage?

It can't be much. The 3 fastest HS all-time 2-milers and Webb, lived at sea level.

Way more kids plive at sea level than altitude and sea level kids race more at sea level, where they are faster. So there you go.

Obviously there is a benefit for training at altitude. Why do you think so many people that are pros live and train at altitude to race all sea level races? Why does Rupp have an altitude house to race all sea level races?

2015 was the best year for high schol running. 11 guys broke 8:50 and 2 went sub 4 in the mile.

I find it strange all these HS kids are posting time trials with no videos. Sub 1:50 -no video sub 8:50- no video.

Next..............

SDSU Aztec wrote:

I’m impressed wrote:

It’s probably worth a sub-8:35 at sea level actually. Did he run it in VaporFlys though?

The adjustment isn't nearly as much for someone that lives at altitude. Been Saarel ran 8:49 at Provo, UT and 8:45 at Arcadia. The advantage of training at altitude is for racing at altitude.

Complete bullshit. I can give any number of examples of kids, even very fast kids, who drop 15+ sec going from the Denver area to sea level with great competition. I’ll grant you that some of the conversions for the mile from, say, Alamosa or Gunnison are too generous, but I’ve seen these huge improvements too many times to discount it. But, I also don’t think the drop from Provo to sea level is nearly as comparable. Probably worth 8-9 sec for the good Utah runners.

Any number? How about just 5 who ran close to 8:50 and dropped at least 15 seconds. I doubt you can come close.

Kevin Williams 9:06 (3200) - 8:51 (two-mile)

Brent Vaughn 9:05 - 8:45

Walter Schafer 9:18 - 8:57

Matt Tebo 9:05 (3200) - 8:47 (two-mile)

And, wait for it...

Cole Sprout 8:57 - 8:40.

Now, here's the dilemma with your challenge... Cole Sprout is the only runner to run 8:50 at 5,200'+.

There are plenty of others, lesser guys. Kid I ran against went 9:32 to 9:12. Happens just about every year given the opportunity.

You can check a bunch of other 9 minute guys to see how fast they run at Arcadia. Finn Gessner. 9:01 in Wisconsin. He ran 8:47 at Arcadia.

What's your point? Is the Arcadia track really short or something? Arcadia was the first meet for some of those guys, so, presumably, they weren't in peak fitness by then. Also, I listed two who didn't run at Arcadia, whose two miles would've converted even faster. You said give you five. So I did. Your other qualifier is BS, since only one kid that I'm aware of has ever broken 9:00 at "high altitude," namely, above a mile high elevation. Probably a pretty good reason for that as Colorado is a "deep" state for distance running.

Heck, there were two kids from a school in the same county (high 9:30s) who ran 15 seconds faster than anything they ran at high altitude last year in Arizona at their first meet of the season. Sure wish I had run Arcadia... man, I was probably good for 9:10. Might've gotten a partial...

Talent beats training wrote:

Any number? How about just 5 who ran close to 8:50 and dropped at least 15 seconds. I doubt you can come close.

Just last year alone, Cole Sprout, Cruz Culpepper, Ares Reading, Dylan Schubert

Historically? Brent Vaughn comes to mind, Michael Mooney from 2017, etc. etc.

That's impressive wrote:

Kevin Williams 9:06 (3200) - 8:51 (two-mile)

Brent Vaughn 9:05 - 8:45

Walter Schafer 9:18 - 8:57

Matt Tebo 9:05 (3200) - 8:47 (two-mile)

And, wait for it...

Cole Sprout 8:57 - 8:40.

Now, here's the dilemma with your challenge... Cole Sprout is the only runner to run 8:50 at 5,200'+.

There are plenty of others, lesser guys. Kid I ran against went 9:32 to 9:12. Happens just about every year given the opportunity.

I don’t have a horse in this race but only one of the people you mentioned is within 15 seconds of 8:50. It could be that high altitude races tend to have much weaker competition and while altitude may place some part, the increased competition at the big sea-level meets is the primary factor for the performance improvements.

kartelite wrote:

That's impressive wrote:

Kevin Williams 9:06 (3200) - 8:51 (two-mile)

Brent Vaughn 9:05 - 8:45

Walter Schafer 9:18 - 8:57

Matt Tebo 9:05 (3200) - 8:47 (two-mile)

And, wait for it...

Cole Sprout 8:57 - 8:40.

Now, here's the dilemma with your challenge... Cole Sprout is the only runner to run 8:50 at 5,200'+.

There are plenty of others, lesser guys. Kid I ran against went 9:32 to 9:12. Happens just about every year given the opportunity.

I don’t have a horse in this race but only one of the people you mentioned is within 15 seconds of 8:50. It could be that high altitude races tend to have much weaker competition and while altitude may place some part, the increased competition at the big sea-level meets is the primary factor for the performance improvements.

You understand only one person has ever broke 9 at CO altitude, right?

Sprout went 8:57 in CO leading the whole way and had someone with him until about 600-800 to go, and 8:40 leading the whole way in CA. Only difference was Young was on his tail the whole way and passed him in the final 20m. He was all out both times.

It is just science kids, oxygen diffuses slower at altitude. Period. For everyone. That affects performance because you need to transport oxygen for endurance events. Not debatable.

Exactly. Good post. I've been witnessing this over the past 30 years, girls also. High altitude kids just go so much faster at low elevation. Some of it is competition, but even kids who are more middle of the pack go much faster at sea level given the opportunity... and that's just the thing. Not everyone has the opportunity to run at sea level week after week. In fact, dare I say, sea level kids who can both train faster and recover faster because of the availability of oxygen are able to get their bodies prepared to run FASTER. Now, take a Cole Sprout and give him 3-4 weeks of low altitude training, and God only knows how fast he would run.

Where you get less advantage for people going from altitude to sea level is for athletes not only born and raised at altitude but with groups of people with significant adaptation to altitude over hundreds or thousands of years. Pitsiladis doesn't think that genetic adaptation to altitude (as opposed to simply being born and raised at altitude) is significant for Kenyan runners, but you'll find them running times at altitude that convert to lower than the world records at times and certainly to below their actual pr's. A famous example is Kip Keino, who ran an incredible 3:34.8 at 7,000 feet in Mexico City, but never ran faster at sea level. Altitude-born and raised athletes won almost all the medals in Mexico City, indicating that they had a marked advantage. A sea level runner going to altitude would lose more time than an altitude runner would gain going to sea level.