Georgia leads to way on reopening - Thoughts?

We will open back up, but I think some of these places are really, really tricky. Gyms? In the best of times people are negligent about wiping down machines. Although maybe this will change that.

Massage? Hmmmm seems hard to social distance. Same for hair salons.

At some point restaurants will open but with strict rules about proximity. Maybe 1/4 to 1/2 seating capacity.

The next question is: how many people are going to risk it? Remember people were isolating before any state government gave orders. The NBA shut down, concerts shut down, OpenTable shows a massive drop off in reservations before any state gave orders. How fast will we return?

fortuitous wrote:

Good thing the CDC is there so they can treat all the sick people when the number of cases explodes.

CDC does not do that...

real news wrote:

https://time.com/5818547/ventilators-coronavirus/

There is not one treatment that is 100% effective for everyone. So this is a logical progression. Also some patients were put on ventilators too late. COVID also affects the liver and kidneys so that has to be factored in.

As the article notes, deaths are not that rare on ventilators regardless. As noted, they are not sure why the percentage is higher. It might be that patients put on ventilators for non-COVID reasons were healthier to start with.

Remember this virus has only been in humans for a few months. There is a lot to be learned.

bravo wrote:

If the hospitals are caught up and ppe is accessible go for it. God forbid we live with some calculated risk. If you are not an overweight smoker or over 75 years + live life a bit more careful and if you get covid it will be a tough two weeks JUST LIKE WHEN YOU GOT THE FLU . If you are older wear your mask and live carefully. People live with risk every single day when they knowingly smoke cigarettes, drive to work, eat a McDonald’s diet, play on the trampoline bla bla. The only difference is the societal pressure to feel scared. It makes you feel like a villain for sizing up the risk and choosing to live like we always have. The pressure the governor’s must have is rough and props to the Georgia governors for being a strong one

Like you said, everything in life is a calculated risk, and opening up GA is just that. Problem is you have to know what the possible outcomes are and what those odds are before you can make good decisions on such calculated risks. All the things you mention such as driving, poor diet, even getting the flu (which by the way for the millionth time is not just like Covid -19) all have reasonably well known risks. If the sole reason to open up the state is to get the economy rolling again - then what are the odds that this will help?

That is where you run into problems, nobody knows so there is a real danger that the Gov will open up the state and see the exact opposite happen - a spike in cases, everything has to close again, and we spend the greater part of the summer and maybe the fall huddled in our houses.

Then you have a worst case scenario of a terrible economy and more deaths.

There is no guarantee that this will happen - I hope it does not - but it is a real danger it will. Even under the most wildly optimistic (pessimistic?) projections we are still very far away from most people having been exposed to the virus and having some sort of immunity. That means there are still plenty of people left to infect. You are kidding yourself if you don't think that this can become the same sh*t-show again (or worse) all it takes is a few super spreaders exposing a bunch of people.

Most gov's are not willing to take these risks till they know the odds better, there are better mitigation programs & contingencies (all types of testing and follow up), and just basically fewer unknowns. Everyone will need to take some risks to get back to normal, but just like driving your car at 120 mph is a foolish and unnecessary risk, we better buckle up and drive the speed limit till we know the conditions are better. Let's hope GA is not a cautionary tale.

real news wrote:

He was right. You probably think somebody who dies of the flu was right to not have have lived in a bubble. You probably think somebody who dies in a car crash was right for driving his car. You even probably think somebody is right who dies of a heart attack even though his doctor had told him for years to clean up his diet. 3 million people will die in the US and the Government could prevent most of those deaths by outlawing driving, and smoking, and junk food, and alcohol, and mandating exercise. Should the Government not be responsible for saving 3 million lives?

So if we had no cars, would be get around on horses? Horses throw people and those people end up crippled or dead. Horses crap all over the place and that spreads disease. Also, ambulances save a lot of lives so if there is no driving and a person has a heart attack, he/she is dead.

We tried outlawing alcohol and for a while deaths went up because people were making their own and getting poisoned. We'll leave out the gangland violence that came along with the bootlegging.

Hmmmm...how do we mandate exercise? Will each neighborhood have a Fitness Commmandant that rousts everyone out of bed at 0530 for exercise?

Who gets to decide what "junk food" is? Sure Snickers, but then you get the vegans lobbying to ban meat or the Paleos wanting to ban pasta. Then you also create an underground market (see Prohibition).

FFF wrote:

This ^

That said, it's quite a funny list of business Georgia is opening. There's really that many of those businesses? That's the driver of the entire Georgia economy?

Massage places, nail and hair places, tattoo parlors?

I think some of it is because those places are highly impacted by stay at home orders. My sister and her female friends have been freaking out about their hair. I find it funny since they are not going anywhere anyway.

real news wrote:

https://time.com/5818547/ventilators-coronavirus/

Props to coming through with an actual source. My apologies, I thought you might have been a bot or troll. Given this is a new disease, it makes sense there would be some unexpected outcomes from using established treatments which work well for other diseases.

However, the article you shared does not contain statistics. It contains anecdotes. The only numbers in the link you posted are in this paragraph:

But roughly 20% — many of them older adults or people weakened by chronic conditions — can grow much sicker. They can have trouble breathing and suffer chest pain. Their lungs can become inflamed, causing a dangerous condition called acute respiratory distress syndrome. An estimated 3% to 4% may need ventilators.

I live in Atlanta. Let me start off by saying Kemp is a fool and shouldn't even be in office due to his election tampering.

The numbers show it's way too early to start opening things up again. The federal guidelines say that there should be a 14 day decrease in new cases before starting to open things up again, which I actually think is pretty reasonable. Georgia really isn't there yet, and I think we're going to see a spike in new cases if things are really reopened later this week.

Luv2Run wrote:

We will open back up, but I think some of these places are really, really tricky. Gyms? In the best of times people are negligent about wiping down machines. Although maybe this will change that.

Massage? Hmmmm seems hard to social distance. Same for hair salons.

At some point restaurants will open but with strict rules about proximity. Maybe 1/4 to 1/2 seating capacity.

The next question is: how many people are going to risk it? Remember people were isolating before any state government gave orders. The NBA shut down, concerts shut down, OpenTable shows a massive drop off in reservations before any state gave orders. How fast will we return?

This, 100%. People think the only thing standing in the way of everything returning to normal is a government order. The behavioral changes we are seeing are going to last a long time, some will be permanent.

Unfortunately, a ton of people that are currently out of work are going to remain out of work. The economy is not an internet router that you just unplug and then plug back in.

Most of the country won't do anything until California does. As it should be.

If you read the Governor's press release, he says a lot of the right things. However, some of capacities that the state will need to address any emerging hot spots sound like they are still in development. He says the decision is data driven, but I note that GA ranks 42 out of all 50 states in tests/million, so you have to hope he has all the data he needs for a decision of this magnitude. He says that he is in "regular contact" with local leaders and we assume he values their cooperation and input, but he failed to discuss the roll out of the new policy with any of them prior to its release. As you say, let's hope the story isn't cautionary. Maybe it'll all work out well for Georgia, and Kemp will be hailed as a gutsy visionary.

As an Atlanta local my belief (and the general consensus) is that Kemp's opening the state up too early. Having said that, a lot of the rural counties haven't had the same exposure that Metro Atlanta has. Local law enforcement outside of Atlanta were handing out $1,000 fines if they saw Atlanta plates in their municipalities.

Having said all this, I find it ironic that the folks who are so quick to criticize Kemp are the same ones that are getting to-go drinks at bars inside the perimeter, hanging out in large groups at Piedmont Park, walking the belt-line, hanging out around Midtown, etc. The hypocrisy of some is unbelievable.

He didn’t even notify his task force about the re-opening.

https://www.ajc.com/blog/politics/members-kemp-coronavirus-task-force-didn-know-about-his-order-reopen-businesses/pRXy3myfIP1Jd8pn3gMfLJ/

Less than three weeks ago Governor Kemp figures this out.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/490758-georgia-governor-says-he-didnt-know-asymptomatic-people-could-spread

Not confidence inspiring at all.

real news wrote:

Finally somebody with guts and brains. The flu season is over just as predicted. May 1 will be all clear.

More people have died in one month than the entire flu season. And they’re still dying.

What’s your logic?!

Sounds great. Let them all die first.

Looks like that Georgia tested a lot less than the average in the US.

They might be up for a nice surprise in a couple of month.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

The Dakotas, Arkansas and 2 other states never closed.

zoomx83 wrote:

Most of the country won't do anything until California does. As it should be.

That would be like people actually listening to Alyssa Milano

Takes under 20 seconds to google a link to back up your claims on here.

Oh wait- thatd be assuming the evidence exists.