Road Racing and Training Thread - Week Ending 2/9/20

Wouldn't a long run just be considered your longest run of the week? Whether it be 6 miles for someone who typically only runs 3 miles a day or 16 miles for people training for a marathon running like 8 a day?

Anyway, call it whatever you want. It really doesn't matter. No need to debate it.

Just run, baby.

No need to debate it? Hellllll thats all we do on this thread is debate crap.

Long run should be determined as a percentage of weekly mileage.... What that threshold is who knows... but would guess ... 17.5% minimum .. so if doing 100 mpw then 17.5

runrincerepeat wrote:

No need to debate it? Hellllll thats all we do on this thread is debate crap.

Don’t forget trash talking

AJ: "You're not a real runner unless you run marathons"

Also AJ: "This 5k is too long and too hard. Guess I'll just DNF"

Gordon Tremeshko wrote:

My present arbitrary thinking is that runs over 90 minutes are a long run for anyone training for shorter races, and if you're training for a marathon I'd bump that definition up to about 2 hours.

So does that mean Kipchoge’s INEOS run, while officially the marathon distance, does not yet qualify for a long run based on this 2 hour definition?...

Runner A covers 14 miles at 9:00 pace in 2 hours and 6 minutes.

Runner B covers 15 miles at 6:00 pace in 90 minutes.

Is the question really who ran longer or who ran farther? Who expended more energy? Who suffered more glycogen depletion and micro-tearing of muscles?

For these reasons, I like setting 90 minutes as a baseline for a long run. I realize slow runners won’t travel as relatively far in 90 minutes as faster runners, but 90 minutes of work in my mind is still 90 minutes of work.

Our thread is skewed because a lot of us run more than 90 minutes multiple times per week. Many elite runners focused on races less than the marathon distance RARELY hit 90 minutes for a single run. But I am sure some of their runs are longer than others, hence they will call their 75 minute 12 miler a long run.

The Stone Cutter wrote:

Gordon Tremeshko wrote:

My present arbitrary thinking is that runs over 90 minutes are a long run for anyone training for shorter races, and if you're training for a marathon I'd bump that definition up to about 2 hours.

So does that mean Kipchoge’s INEOS run, while officially the marathon distance, does not yet qualify for a long run based on this 2 hour definition?...

Gordon Tremeshko wrote:

My present arbitrary thinking is that runs over 90 minutes are a long run for anyone training for shorter races, and if you're training for a marathon I'd bump that definition up to about 2 hours.

I'll wade into the long run debate. I think if your run exceeds either 14 miles or 100 minutes you qualify for long run status. Doesn't mean a strong one (id put .at 16 miles + or 2 hours +), but one nonetheless. Granted, I am a soft middle-distance runner who winces at the thought of 10 miles on a single run that is not the longest of the week. Maybe that changes in a few years?

@Stone: nice bounceback week, three 14+ mile runs (long runs??) definitely is mighty impressive

@HHW: this is way more impressive stuff than I could do before my 2:56. If achilles hold up I think you're gonna put up a great time because I think 6:30 is a realistic MP

@Gordon: high score despite some major snow, very nice; really hope you're right and thx for the kind words, it's been really fun just rediscovering my love of training and the sport...what a great hobby it is

@JQ: boring is good!

@rrr: that thumb is gnarly

@OR: happy to hear leg is getting there and the progressions are as always something I'm amazed you can grind out

@GNR: very solid week coming off sickness

@going faster: miss the trails just reading this

@Runner Sam: very solid workouts, fighting through the wind is tough

@DietBacon: Monster Wednesday workout. I used to suck at running in the mud, extra-long spikes can make a huge difference though.

@Coffee: Great week, I might steal that Fartlek, I like the idea of alternating those paces

@darkwave: very strong pre-taper week, the wind has been absurd of late... I got a dose of it Sunday...think I will stick to running in the wind-protected park and away from the water for a little bit; first Project Fearless workout tomorrow @ Icahn: 5x1000 at HM with 90 seconds rest. I am going to make that an aggressive HM time because I know running 3:45s with rest is going to feel too easy.

@stat: could not agree more. The closest I'd gotten to a short interval in years was 1' hard in a fartlek...just not the same as running a 200. Your 800 scenario is what I used to have as a recurring nightmare with a goal race.

@surgical: wish you the best of luck in getting back to consistent training

@sub-6: like the mix of all sorts of paces, we'll see if any of us get that NYC lottery bid

@mdubs: great result. 600 out isn't too bad, you don't exactly want to be feeling tapped out completely before you get to the line either

@NiceGuy: 63 in 6 days very nice week. Also my fiancee got injured immediately in Pegs, seem like they work for some but pose a danger for many.

@runnerfc: smart plan in getting healthy

@Guy: I am intrigued by the Beacons to the point of reading a Beacon vs. Bostons letsrun thread of the past. Split views there, but I might give them a whirl. Bostons ruined my clunky Asics for any type of workout that's for sure. Still like the clunkers for keeping me slow on easy days.

@Pappy: Nice seeing you back in here!

@Tyler: What a great race and well executed. Congrats on persevering some lonely sections and getting into the ADP corral.

@AJ: Beastly week.

@fnd: i like on/off a lot too when I want to really go by feel instead of harping on exact pace/splits

@lanc: nice Tuesday/Thursday and a very well-measured progression always feels great. And yes the long run felt great...really if anything had to hold myself back from hammering at 6:50ish pace after mile 1 (dangerously close to running MP effort for almost 14 miles?). The ridiculous wind on the West Side Highway humbled me a bit.

@Pow: Very impressive to do that big a week on low sleep/lots of work

@jewbacca: good comeback week

@pewow: sounds a little bit like my opening race, solid start to the season

statfanatic wrote:

AJ: "You're not a real runner unless you run marathons"

Also AJ: "This 5k is too long and too hard. Guess I'll just DNF"

Altho in AJs defense ... Smoove did give some rather shady advices on pacing

Debating on whether to give myself another recovery day and get back to workouts on Wednesday or to do a light workout tomorrow...

I would probably go 10 or so miles at a moderate pace, if I take it easier.

Workout would be something like... 2 mi WU, 4 mi aerobic, strides, 4x400 @ 10K, 2 mi CD

Thoughts?

Take the recovery day...and if feels too easy, then progress it some toward the end.

statfanatic wrote:

AJ: "You're not a real runner unless you run marathons"

Also AJ: "This 5k is too long and too hard. Guess I'll just DNF"

Damn, son.

M/41/169 lbs

Goal Race: Boston and Chicago 2020

Monday

AM: 4 easy

PM: 6.2 easy

Tuesday

AM: 6.2 with workout [5K @ tempo]

Decent tempo - averaged about 6:33 pace. Felt much better than what I expected, as I had raced the 10K just on last Sunday (2 days back).

Wednesday:

AM: 8.5 @ easy

Thursday:

AM: 6.1 with workout (3 x 10 mins with 2 mins recovery)

Very pleased with the workout. Average splits for the 3 fast segments were (6:25, 6:21, 6:27). Definitely ran the second repeat harder than I should have. Original goal was to stay in the threshold range (around 6:35 pace), but guess I got carried away :).

Friday:

AM: 11.6 moderate. Faster group of guys. I should have run this alone and run it easy.

Saturday:

AM: 16.1 @ current MP + 45 secs

Barely crossed into the long run threshold. Pulled the plug at 16, as I was feeling some strain in the groin area.

Sunday:

AM: 11.3 @ very easy

Weekly miles: 70.2

Weekly hours: 9:15

"I'd rather not say (how much I weigh). I'm still carrying some holiday weight." - Ross G, Friends

Back in the saddle.

34/m

Lot's of good things happening around here. Been back to creeping the past few weeks, or at least long enough to see a suggestion about OR trying something new, an outside the oval thought. Hope Coach Jeff is out there somewhere and gets back at it. Really great cycle and bummer of a result. There's joy in putting one foot in front of the other though, chasing that big goal.

Was burnt to a crisp and took a full month off from just before Christmas until a few weeks ago. This past week was my third week back. Have been doing a lot of hot yoga, Bikram, for those who know it. Good workout for my wife and I to do together. Didn't realize how fried I was mentally until I let myself completely step back and restart with no specific intentions whatsoever. After three weeks it's hard not to have the itch to ramp up and go.

M - 7 run home with 5 * 30 seconds

T - 5 run back to work

W - lift, DIY yoga

T - 4 with 4 * 30 seconds

F - 2.5ish with several random bursts

Sa - 6 with 6 hill sprints (20ish seconds + 3*20 second sprints). Have had a standing 8am Saturday morning yoga class with my wife, but we went to concert Friday night and go home late, so we called it off.

Su - 11.5

36 in 5:20ish. Haven't entered the miles in my tracker, so unsure about actual time.

All miles real easy. 8:40 - 9:00 minute pace + strides and hills. First few runs featured some 9:20 miles on fresh legs. Wearing a Timex 100% of the time - most of the mile markers on my trail are marked, but I haven't been paying close attention, so everything is an estimate. Training is MAF-esque right now. No HR monitor, so I'm guessing I'm drifting above the prescribed 180-my age at times.

45 days off the sauce.

There's a new marathon in Chicago along the lakefront on April 5th. I'm likely going to run it off nothing but base miles + strides/sprints and hills. May hit 50 miles once or twice - going full on hobby jogger with this one. The day is scheduled to be my 100th consecutive day booze free too, so there's some cool symbolism. Haven't quit for good, at lest not yet, but the beers have never done me a single favor so I'm taking an extended break. May then do a short cycle for a half on June 7th, but that's nothing more than me thinking out loud.

Going to Austin next weekend, so if you have a can't miss trail or BBQ joint suggestion, I'm all ears.

Good to be back, and good to see Pappy out there too!

If I’m Austin go to “taco joint”. It’s across the river from downtown. A block down from taco joint is a nice little store that has a great selection of craft sixers.

Wow. I mean.... we’ll done stat.

I choose not to get in these debates to avoid devastating blows like this.

But if I did enter into these debates, I would say my 1hr 40+ min 14 miles this weekend should damn well qualify as a long run if I did a total of 56 miles last week. That’s 24% of weekly total.

I’d say anything over 18-20% is a long run.

Just wanted to say thank you to everyone for the Pegasus/Turbo advice, I never got a good feeling when I tried the Pegasus on but didn’t know if it was just me. I’m going to skip the Pegasus “regular” and go to a pair of Turbos I found online for $99 in vomit green. They’ll be brown after a week on trail anyway, especially with all the rain around here lately. Backups are Mizuno Wave Riders and their Hot Wave Plate Action, as I call it, after six glasses of wine.

Anyway, Sad about the Vomeros, they had a real spot in the Nike lineup. Sounds like the Nike Epic Infinity Run, along with possibly the Turbos, will be the new plush trainer, albeit with very hefty MSRP price tags. Looking foreward to wearing them in all the ugly unloved colors, eBay here I come baby.

@RunGuyMidwest - I would say to either hit Salt Lick BBQ or drive out to Lockhart, if you have a car. You can’t go wrong with Franklin’s, though, in Austin city proper.

The Stone Cutter wrote:

statfanatic wrote:

AJ: "You're not a real runner unless you run marathons"

Also AJ: "This 5k is too long and too hard. Guess I'll just DNF"

Damn, son.

As much as that hurt it’s exactly what I needed before my redemption 5k this weekend. Will be running on pure hate. And I guarantee I won’t miss the start like a chump.

AJ: Good stuff, man. Pretty fun to fight the elements and win. Just don't get swept away out there.

My two cents on shoes:

For the right price I will run in ugly colors a half size too big, but I've never been able to go for the Pegasus. So bumpy underfoot. I try them on like once a year because there is always some kind of leftover Peg in the clearance piles. But to me they feel like walking on cobblestones in socks.

The Beacons seem extremely neutral. Softer than Bostons. Like an old Nike Free, but with some energy return. OR, do you do longer stuff in them? Makes the sidewalk feel like a fairway underfoot, which is comfy but I could see that softness getting tiring if you go long.