Training: Are doubles worth it?

Doubles are definitely worth it but if you run only 40-45 mpw at best, you still don't need them. Try to reach gradually ~60mpw from singles only, then add 1-2 doubles if you want to go further

That's not the point of doubles. The point of doubles is to add a secondary stress within a 24 hour period.

Often said at LRC. Almost always wrong. Any double is a good double.

From Jim Spivey's training log.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=907089&page=3

First to clarify - I changed coaches in March of 1987: Mike
Durkin and Ken Popejoy. Ken now has sons competing for Notre Dame and U of
Illinois. Mike wrote all the training, and Ken timed me from 1987-1993. The
last 4 years, Ken would come to the track about once every two weeks. They were
both attorneys, and very busy. I remember in 1993, Ken did over 1000 real
estate closings, trained with me, and still traveled to Stuttgard with me for
the World Championships where I was 5th in the 1500m.

1987: Week ending / mileage / notable race
May 9 / 73.0
May 16 / 60 3:59.3 Pepsi
May 23 / 70
May 30 / 60 3:37.49 Jenner
June 6 / 66 1:48.4 Pre
June 13 / 63 1:49.0 Boston
June 20 / 40 sick 3 days
June 27 / 52 3:43.66 USATF's, 1st (52.2 last 400)
July 4 / 45 3:51.91 Dream Mile Oslo, 2nd
July 11 / 62
July 18 / 38 3:55.62 Barcelona, 4th
July 25 / 74
Aug 1 / 73
Aug 8 / 66
Aug 15 / 45 3:47.46 1500m - Pan Am Games, 2nd
Aug 22 / 44 3:34.37 Zurich, 3rd
Aug 29 / 53 3:39.0 part of 4x1500m team in Dublin, 2nd fastest time by USA (3:43,
3:39, 3:46, 3:39.0)
Sept 6 / 46 3:38.82, World Champs Bronze medal, Rome
Sept 14 / 36 3:36.8 Brussles, Grand Prix final, 2nd
Sept 19 / 38 4:52.44 2000m Amerian Record, Lausanne
In comparison: 1993
April 3 / 63
April 10 / 49
April 17 / 77
April 24 / 62 13:58 5000m 1st Drake Relays
May 1 / 63 Treadmill test, 85.2 Sustainable max vo2 and highest vo2 of my
career, 88.3
May 8 / 64 3:40.31 Indianapolis
May 15 / 57
May 22 / 55
May 29 / 52 3:41.57 Jenner, 3rd
June 5 / 63 13:25.92 5000m Pre, 3rd
June 11 / 54
June 19 / 45 USATF Oregon, 3:42.92 3rd
June 26 / 59 3:54.98 Indianapolis 3rd
July 3 / 50 3:36.45 Lille, 2nd
July 10 / 50 3:52.37 Oslo Dream mile 4th
July 17 / 60
July 24 / 56
July 31 / 56 3:39.38 Luxemburg, 1st
Aug 7 / 52 7:37.07 3000m Colonge, 3rd PR
Aug 14 / 48
Aug 21 / 44 3:37.41 World champs, 5th (Heat, semi and final)
Aug 28 / 40 3:54.78 Berlin
Sept 4 / 57 3:34.91 Reiti
Sept 11 / 46 3:36.28 Grand Prix final, London, 6th

For training, the building phase was from when Indoor track ended (March 1)
through June 1. Three months. I would put in workouts three times a week.
Either M-R-Sat with a long run on Sunday, or M-W-Sat and a long run on Sunday.
Long runs were 80-90 minutes. Pace for the long runs: From my logs: 6:36; 6:45;
6:28; 6:50; 6:48

track workouts were based upon doing a lot of intervals, with short rest, slow.

Examples:
3.24.91: 800-600-800, 800, 800-600-800 with 200 rest between intervals, and
400-600 rest between sets. 2:15 pace for the 800's, with a 30 m's morning run,
14.5 miles for the day.
4.20.91: 2x150(50)[400] 1x400 :67(200) 2x200(200) :31 1x400 :66 (400)
6x200(200) 30 [400] 1x250 41 (150) 1x400 :61 (200) 2x250(150) 40
5.14.91: 4x150(50)[400] 4x800(800) 1:58 pace
5.16.91: 6x250(150) :42 [400] 4x400(200) 62[400] 5x250(150) :42 [400] 2x400(200)
:61
5.11.87: 5x150(50)[400] 3x400(200) 61 [400] 2x400(200) 60 [400] 3x400(200) 59
[400] 6x1500(50)[400] 3x200(200) :30

Week of 6.26-7.2 of 1988
Saturday - 90 m's (m=minutes)

Sunday - 3.5 am / 2 miles wu,10x100
4x150(50)[400]
6x250(150)35,35, 32, 35, 35, 32 [400]
2x400(200) 56, 56 [600]
7x200(100) 32, 32, 31, 33, 32, 30, 32 [400]
3x150(50)
6x100, mile wd (13.0 miles for the day)

Monday: 3 miles am / 4 miles pm and strides

Tuesday: 3 miles am/ 4.5 miles pm and 10x100

Wednesday: 2 miles warm-up, 10x100
3x150(50)[200]
6x200(100) :34 [400]
2x400(400) 55, 56 [600]
6x200(100) ran :30 on the grass, and jogged :30 slow
jog 300 slow
10x100
mile wd (9 miles for the day)

Thursday: 2 miles am / massage / 4.5 miles, 10x100 pulse 48 AM

Friday: Flight to Oslo, 810am
33 mins with John Walker, New Zealand, 13x100

Saturday: Oslo Dream mile, 3:50.57 6th place
splits 58.2-1:56.7-2:55.0-55.5 last 400
60.5 miles for the week

I think I would say, when I ran on the track, I put in a lot of milage. For my
recovery days, I ran 3-4 miles in the morning and 35-45 minutes in the
afternoon.

Hoped that answered your question. All of the above info was taken from my
logs.

Most LRCers also don't have an 85 VO2 max off of < 60 miles/week...

This thread is old but I don't think doubles are right for a HSer doing 30-40 miles/week. A pro doing well on the diamond league tour? Sure. But they probably spent a lot of time well above the 40-60ish/week they're doing in season with those doubles. Or they're the exception & not the rule.

&, yes, doubles might benefit anyone but that doesn't mean they're right at age 16 off of relatively low mileage to begin with. Spend some time developing. Find joy in the sport. If you stick with it & keep improving, then think about doubling. That might not happen if you're choosing a short double over sleep & being a kid.