Man who came up with sub-2 idea, Yannis Pitsiladis, isn't a fan of it anymore: "I think it is all about the shoe now"

berlin 2018, 2019, sub2, kona top 3 women...

time to ban the shoes like they did swim skins for Olympics a few years back.

TheTrueKing wrote:

This "shoe made the difference" argument is just beyond stupid. Why didn't we say the same when Kimetto ran in the boosts (which were also shown to have a noticeable benefit for efficiency), hell, why not just make everyone run the marathon barefoot? The very purpose of cushioning in shoes is to reduce impact and increase energy efficiency, why do we complain when a company manages to improve on that?

Totally agree. I ran HS 1972-1976 and then college and then marathons. Believe me the shoes available even during that time changed and made running better. And now better still. I wish I had current shoes given the pounding I put up with and the injuries I faced. Metal hip now (resurfacing, can still jog). Would the newest shoes, more efficient have avoided this? Will never know for sure. So to me even the shoes not being discussed here could have been seen as cheating shoes. And the shoes Jim Ryan ran in, and tracks he ran on--he could have complained runners in my time were cheating on tartan tracks and in improved shoes. So this seems false controversy to me. These are not powered shoes (like the engines found hidden in racing bikes). They are not huge springs and don’t have wheels. They fit into the space of many shoes before them. They are not the huge springs as on Oscar that made for controversy. They are shoes. I wish I had had them back when. Pavement meeting running would have been a more congenial experience for my joints.

F this Yankis Penisdadis!!

They are all dopers and age cheats

Eliud Kipchoge is at least five years older than his stated age, won the world juniors when he was 23.

Then he doped himself up to his eyeballs.

That is why he ran under two hours.

Lesson: lie and cheat and you too can change the world.

If the Nike 4% are legal, then these bionic boots must be as well:

https://www.zmescience.com/research/technology/man-wants-run-like-ostrich-built-25-mph-bionic-boots/

It would be fun if someone broke the world record in these!

Asami from 'Audition' wrote:

They are all dopers and age cheats

Eliud Kipchoge is at least five years older than his stated age, won the world juniors when he was 23.

Then he doped himself up to his eyeballs.

That is why he ran under two hours.

Lesson: lie and cheat and you too can change the world.

This just reminds me how the Patriots won so many Super Bowls.

Agreed. Can’t get excited for this stuff when it’s done under these conditions.

Well said. The dogooders want to go back to very lousy shoes. Which slowed running and created many injuries .

Do gooders.and busy bodies are mostly pure evil.

TheTrueKing wrote:

The dogooders want to go back to very lousy shoes. Which slowed running and created many injuries .

I suggest you switch to roller skates. They speed you up even more and prevent injuries as well.

Another world record and several national records broken today. Our beautiful sport has become a joke. Why is medical doping banned and mechanical doping legal?

TheTrueKing wrote:

This "shoe made the difference" argument is just beyond stupid. Why didn't we say the same when Kimetto ran in the boosts (which were also shown to have a noticeable benefit for efficiency), hell, why not just make everyone run the marathon barefoot? The very purpose of cushioning in shoes is to reduce impact and increase energy efficiency, why do we complain when a company manages to improve on that?

I honestly don't care how it was done. I predicted in 2010 that it could be possible to achieve within 10 years if enough was invested in the project. Someone just have to announce that we want to do it like what happened with Kennedy and getting man to the moon. Running a sub 2 hour marathon had never really been tired before Nike started to invest in it. I was thinking before they launched these shoes that a sub2 marathon would need a rubberized pavement. They didn't improve the surface but developed better shoes which was smart because now they dominate the racing flat market and have been able to change people's perception of what a shoe should cost and how long it needs to last. It's not an official WR but a man ran marathon under 2 hours and that is for me what counts. If people really want to achieve something, scientists will find a way to make it happen.

TheTrueKing wrote:

hell, why not just make everyone run the marathon barefoot?

Well the official world record should be barefoot. It should be about the athlele's body and not his equipment. Drinks and energy gels should be banned from marathon races as well.

comparing like with like wrote:

TheTrueKing wrote:

hell, why not just make everyone run the marathon barefoot?

Well the official world record should be barefoot. It should be about the athlele's body and not his equipment. Drinks and energy gels should be banned from marathon races as well.

You are absolutely right but you forgot the roads. The race has to be on an unimproved dirt path and not on modern pavement.

We need IAAF regulations. Shoes that meet regulations get “IAAF certified” seal of approval. IAAF certified competition allows only certified equipment. (although maybe it’s easier to put seal of *disapproval* to select shoes).

This Nike monopoly and Adidas athletes using painted Vaporfly is bullshit. Recent records have asterisks to it.

Kipchoge shoes with those horrendous air pockets (remembers the ugly Nike Shocks) will cost $450, last 50 miles and will be rapidly sold out just like Vaporfly. People are stupid and Nike capitalizes on it.

Amen to all of this. Really and truly. LOVE the R&D comment. ALL shoes are intended to boost performance in some way (by protecting your feet, providing traction, etc). Don't hate somebody for great engineering.

Track and running has actually been hurt by the fact that we haven't had significant technology innovations. Golf and tennis have used all kinds of space-age polymers to make their instruments more effective. Back in the days of wooden rackets, if a guy served over 100mph it was phenomenal. Now women serve WAY faster than that, and men are 130-140. Golf clubs hit the ball farther. Balls are better.

What athletes put IN their bodies has also advanced (not talking drugs here, so don't even start). Expertly mixed, individualized "elite fluids". Goo gels. Infinitely better nutrition. Nobody complains about those technology advances that help athletes perform better. Let's not forget altitude training, oxygen tents and the like. Talk about things that aren't "available to all" ... it's much harder to afford 6 weeks at altitude than it is to afford a $250 pair of shoes.

All golf and tennis companies have worked on R&D to innovate in their areas. Seems that in track and running, one company finally took it seriously. I see Asics is starting to nudge toward this sort of thing. The onus is on other companies to take it seriously, and for athletes to choose the "instrument" (or shoe) of their choice.

Every Olympic cycle, reporters ask what new technology was out there to advance T&F. Each year, there was very little to offer, while other sports had all kinds of storylines. Track and running finally take technology and engineering seriously, And as usual, track wants to have everybody competing like its the 19th century.

Keep track meets lasting 12 hours a day, for 10 days, in hot sun, with loads of dead time. Keep all shoes the equivalent of Keds. Don't play music - it's too loud and blaring. Tear down success whenever you can. Great ideas, all.

:)