Ginger running making fun of cross country

Confuzzled wrote:

Capt Context wrote:

For a bit more context...

https://twitter.com/TheGingerRunner/status/1182178208591970304?s=20

It all makes sense now. He wants them to get hurt in practice, but not in races.

”we're in here talking about practice. I mean, listen, we're talking about practice. Not a game. Not a game. Not a game. We're talking about practice. Not a game. Not the game that I go out there and die for and play every game like it's my last. Not the game. We're talking about practice, man.

I mean how silly is that. And we're talking about practice."

asdfnnnn wrote:

Facts:

- There are a lot of overprotective parents.

- There are some courses (particularly in rural mountainous places) with truly awful footing that's liable to injure several of your runners.

I hear ya -- but I'd take a look at the course first before passing judgement. (Either way, weird that the parents are doing this. Should be the kids' and coaches' responsibility.)

I agree with you that the parents should step aside unless they were asked to help.

My motivation as a coach is not from a liability standpoint at all although I understand what you're saying might be true somehwere. Where I am from really none of the athletic directors pay any attention to us at all even for liability issues. The massive injuries they see from soccer and football this time of year kind of water down our "little" problems.

I am interested in having a healthy team toe the line at my state championship race. I already know that an early season ankle twister race that keeps my athletes from training properly for an extended period of time does NOT make them tougher. It would be like saying "concussions make better football players", for those of you coming from the football mentality point of view.

What makes them tougher are races with tough competition, hilly courses, etc. They are highly motivated individually, and we work hard to get them to consider team goals.

So yes, for our September dual meets I make sure to go over the course with my athletes and clear anything that looks like it might cause an injury. We rake the leaves and mark the roots as much for the other team as we do for ourselves. It's usually the inexperienced new coaches that come up with these horrible courses for the dual meet season.

On a side note, I like the ultra running community. I ran in a couple of races and out of the 200+ people there were only a handful of us really cared at all about what place we finished in. I was competitive minded so this never really worked for me but it's refreshing of how supportive they are of each other. At the time it made me reflect about why it is I ran in the first place . They are a live and let live type group so I would agree with those that say that this dig seems off the mark from their overall vibe.

I've often thought about going out and spray painting rocks and using a Sawsall to cut off some of the roots on the trail I run 2-3 times a week. Interestingly, the park is constructing a new trail system that was done right. They dug down 6" or so below the surface to remove rocks and roots and then replaced the dirt. It's especially dangerous in fall when leaves cover the rocks, roots, and drops in the trail. It's not just kids that run on the trails.

As far as Ginger Runner is concerned, if anyone posts long enough and often enough, they'll eventually say something controversial. I enjoy his YouTube channel and refer to it often when considering a new model of shoe. His body of work is a tremendous asset to the running community, regardless of whether one agrees or disagrees with his position on grooming cross country trails.

Confuzzled wrote:

Capt Context wrote:

For a bit more context...

https://twitter.com/TheGingerRunner/status/1182178208591970304?s=20

It all makes sense now. He wants them to get hurt in practice, but not in races.

I was an assistant coach of a HS team for 3 years. One year the head coach found a new location to train that include open field and trails through some woods. He planned to hold some regular practices there and maybe host a meet there. With the first 15 minutes of the practice the athletes and coaches realize the area had too many hazards. There was one or more "ditches" that were about 3 inches deep and 5 inches wide that could not be easily seen due to grass coverage. Several athletes and myself almost injured our ankles due to rolling them. There were other hazards too. That was the last time we ever ran there. Once we realized how hazardous the foot was we slowed down our paces. So either we would injury ourselves or just run too slow to make training or racing there a bad idea.

I do run new trails when visiting state or national parks throughout the country. I have taken some hard falls on these trails.. Some of the falls were in areas with rocks. The falls often happen so quickly I am barely able to get my arms in from of me \in time to break the falls. Luckily I have not been seriously hurt. I would not hold a high school cross country race or practice on trails with numerous tripping hazards.

fisky wrote:

As far as Ginger Runner is concerned, if anyone posts long enough and often enough, they'll eventually say something controversial.

As you see from the top of the page, he continues on the "trail" of stupidity. I think when people post enough, they reveal their true identity. This guy is a real tool.

The ginger runner's shoe reviews are awful. He thinks he's funny but he's not. He married way out of his league.

Although it’s sensible on a crowded course, I’m rather dense and really dislike this practice.

When someone paints a rock, I’m often so busy avoiding it that I trip over something else which I otherwise would have seen.

The marking draws my attention towards a single hazard making every other potential hazard less noticeable.

Too used to scanning and choosing my lines in training. Also, I’m not very smart.

My daughter had an XC race just yesterday on a course that I helped clean. Hell, I even sprayed some roots. The boys team ran faster than 5:30 pace average. Ginger is welcome to come join them.

He needs to stay in his lane. I can tell the guy ain't a fighter.

Who?

Is that Paulo? wrote:

Who?

Exactly. If Ginger Dude thinks it's dumb, then Ginger Dude shouldn't go run that loop.

A race is one thing, but if these are just trails kids are running on during training runs...I think this is totally overboard. We ran on legitimate trails all the time in HS and college, and I would have never dreamed of spray painting every root. Trails are going to have roots and rocks - its important to learn how to run on them and see these obstacles if you want to be a cross country runner or a trail runner. If you can't handle this, stick to the road.

For races, I am totally in favor of marking big obstacles - things are different in a fast moving pack and when your brain is on "all out" mode.

The Ginger should leave ostriches alone, especially the sick ones.

I've never run a trail race that didn't have some level of trail maintenance. Cutting trees, rerouting tricky areas, spray painting, flags, signs of any hazards. Sometimes they leave stuff there there, as part of the trail race experience. Not sure why a trailrunner would poke fun at XC races doing the same thing. They're kids and running shorter races at faster paces with large masses.

They're kids and running shorter races at faster paces with large masses.

Hey now, no reason to pick on the fat kids.

No, I mean there's a lot of kids grouped together and not strung out, going at a fast pace.

Where I live, many of the HS XCers train on trails that wind through a State and National Park. I don't think anyone should be pruning and painting anything in those areas. If it's on their grounds or private land, good for them, I guess.

Nothing wrong with maintaining a trail. How do you think trails were made in the first place? They were "pruned" of vegetation and the ground was scraped and dug and leveled to create the trail. Cutting back vegetation and clearing the trail is part of normal maintenance, otherwise we might as well be running pell mell through the forest. Nothing wrong with running through the forest, but the whole point of creating a trail is to create a narrow corridor devoid of face-level obstacles and relatively smooth. God forbid people do something to try to take care of their local community, rather than let it go to rot through neglect.

Running slow during practice on rooted trails does nothing to help an XC runner. If you really ran XC in college (I doubt it) then you would know that there is very little value in being able to "see these obstacles" in practice.

Is it possible these kids were running on trails that are going to be a race course. Maybe the parents were also helping prep the trail for a race whole the kids were running.

As an trail/ultra runner, the last thing Ginger needs to be doing is discouraging anyone from trail work and discouraging other people from getting into running or helping with the sport--like the parents.