For the people who actually read the USADA panel reports

Wednesday wrote:

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

You are a fool if you think Dr Brown only administered 50 ml, they faked the medical records to 50 ml but administered much higher doses to their athletes behind the scenes.

Your statements here are categorically false. Share some ACTUAL science to back up your claim here. Otherwise, you’re just spouting nonsense.

You post indicates you know absolutely nothing about the tampered (falsified) records.

Jack Frost wrote:

The crux of his ban was that he performed an IV infusion of l-carnitine on Magness. That's the "smoking gun".

The "smoking gun" is an infusion of greater than 50ml within a 6 hour period (or 100 in a 12 hour period). The presence of absence of L-carnitine is absolutely irrelevant.

There is also the trafficking in prohibited substances as well.

Jack Frost wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong but if that allegedly happened in December of 2011 and they were given injections in January of 2012, could they not have just consumed the drink from the on until the Olympics? That timeline would have allowed for whatever cumulative effect to take place, if there is even one. Plus, it is worth noting that Magness was not some fat slob who randomly acquired 5:05 pace ability. He had been jumping in workouts as a pacemaker frequently and was nearly a 4:00 miler in his heyday.

You are a fool. L-carnitine is taken as in "infusion," not as an injection or a drink.

What are you talking about? I put in in my smoothie every morning. The entire stupid debacle came about because they wanted to see if they could circumvent the loading phase of the nutritional drink. I will also once again point out that Magness was not an athlete in the care of Salazar and it is a stretch to say that this test was a doping violation.

I wasn't aware that your L-carnitine usage method appeared in the report. Maybe it is in an unpublished secret section?

No, not everyone. Just goober distance runners.

Jack Frost wrote:

Does it bother anyone else that the entire doping violation hinges upon Magness, who was employed by Nike in a coaching capacity, meeting the USADA definition of an athlete? Speaking only with respect to the actual scope of the investigation as detailed in the reports the entirety of their conclusion is total bullsh-t. It is akin to charging and convicting someone with a conspiracy in which there is no underlying crime or intent to commit a crime. L-carnitine does nothing. You can purchase it by the pound on Amazon.com. Alberto needs to fire his legal team and pick up someone else with experience against ridiculous panels that have dubious standards of proof and operate with wanton subjectivity in their interpretation of WADA code and by-laws.

I'm all for outing and punishing people who cheat but this has simply been bungled.

No.

It doesn't bother me. At all.

And the USADA conclusions are not exclusive to the obvious L carnitine infusions by Magness.

It also is based on pushing athletes to fraudulent thyroid prescriptions, dubious testosterone experiments, and significantly, lying and tampering in the investigation.

Just like it was with Lance Armstrong, it was interviewing former NOP athletes that brought this to light.

Magness?? Try Ritz and KGoucher. They were definitely athletes and not coach/trainers.

AlSals attorneys suck?? Thats laughable.

Nike employed the best and successfully dragged this out for 4 years. The fact the Nike lawyers cant get AlSal cleared is the most telling story here. It tells me AlSal is screwed.

Move along now, Fanboi.

No one cares that your precious NOP is under scrutiny. It should be.

....If I were Brazier, Hassan, or Murphy, I would be exiting the building soon. Save your already tarnished career.

Rupp and Mo??? Forever tainted.

infusions wrote:

I wasn't aware that your L-carnitine usage method appeared in the report. Maybe it is in an unpublished secret section?

This thread is for people who actually read the panel reports. There is extensive discussion of loading via a nutritional drink in the reports.

Right. My point is that when the general public reads headlines like "Alberto Salazar gets a 4-year doping ban" or "Salazar's Doping Scandal" they presume that his athletes were taking banned substances (i.e., doping) and that is clearly not the case (at least based on the USADA report). I 100 % agree that Salazar violated the code, but for the athletes' sake one would hope that USADA would clarify with the media that this is an entirely different situation than pumping athletes up with PEDs.

What? The report specifically states that the thyroid medication was not a violation as the medicine was prescribed and allowed under the WADA code. Go read the report instead of just regurgitating the online message board equivalent of hearsay that is not factual or remotely factual.

The whole thing is a joke. African countries are taking full throttle EPO with impunity. And we're busing our guys for freaking vitamins that are on the edge of the rules, at worst.

So, in competition, we are limiting ourselves to fighting with a plastic butter knife while the Africans are loaded with tanks, nuclear missiles, attack helicopters, fighter jets, etc.

Boy, we are dumb.

Jack Frost wrote:

What? The report specifically states that the thyroid medication was not a violation as the medicine was prescribed and allowed under the WADA code. Go read the report instead of just regurgitating the online message board equivalent of hearsay that is not factual or remotely factual.

not to mention the use of thyroid medication is hardly unique to the NOP. I'd bet many of those pro who were cheering this either visiting Dr. Brown (Coburn) or take thyroid meds.

give me names of runners that are winning but are not cheating?

sham man wrote:

The whole thing is a joke. African countries are taking full throttle EPO with impunity. And we're busing our guys for freaking vitamins that are on the edge of the rules, at worst.

Nobody was busted (or even bused) for vitamins.

you're in the wrong thread wrote:

infusions wrote:

I wasn't aware that your L-carnitine usage method appeared in the report. Maybe it is in an unpublished secret section?

This thread is for people who actually read the panel reports. There is extensive discussion of loading via a nutritional drink in the reports.

Which has what to do with the OP's claim about HIS USING IT IN HIS SMOOTHIES?

Jack Frost wrote:

Does it bother anyone else that the entire doping violation hinges upon Magness, who was employed by Nike in a coaching capacity, meeting the USADA definition of an athlete? Speaking only with respect to the actual scope of the investigation as detailed in the reports the entirety of their conclusion is total bullsh-t. It is akin to charging and convicting someone with a conspiracy in which there is no underlying crime or intent to commit a crime. L-carnitine does nothing. You can purchase it by the pound on Amazon.com. Alberto needs to fire his legal team and pick up someone else with experience against ridiculous panels that have dubious standards of proof and operate with wanton subjectivity in their interpretation of WADA code and by-laws.

I'm all for outing and punishing people who cheat but this has simply been bungled.

The Magness thing is only one of the three counts against Salazar but the other counts are similar. Somehow we have a coach and a doctor banned for a total of 8-years by antidoping without evidence that they ever doped an athlete. Very odd. I don't know what to make of it.

infusuions wrote:

you're in the wrong thread wrote:

This thread is for people who actually read the panel reports. There is extensive discussion of loading via a nutritional drink in the reports.

Which has what to do with the OP's claim about HIS USING IT IN HIS SMOOTHIES?

HINT: You can use a nutritional drink as the base of a smoothie...

You claimed that it could not be taking as an injection or a drink, which is not true. Do you need to go back and read what you posted?

I mean evidence presented in the report. There have been accusations of Salazar doing things to athletes that he shouldn't have been doing: offering Rupp's medications to Kara Goucher, coaching Lauren Fleshman on how to get prescribed the largest dose of an inhaler, mailing drugs in cut-out books to Rupp, etc. I don't know if USADA wasn't able to back up these claims or if Salazar's lawyers fought them off. Something about a ban for Salazar and Brown that doesn't implicate a single NOP athlete seems to good to be true to me. I worry this was some sort of negotiated settlement.