MTF athletes should not have to go on artificial hormones. Instead they should have to go vegan for two years before competing. Then, as Sage has shown so well, they will be on equal footing with the XX women. From the pallor of his pictures, June/Jonathan looks like he/she may be n this road already.
First transgender athlete June Eastwood to compete in women’s DI XC this fall, has pbs of 1:55/3:50/14:38
College Running
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track chick wrote:
Also why should the emphasis be on 'real women' to end this? Surely it's up to everyone? Who is causing the problem?
Well, men certainly can't do it. They'll be shot down for mansplaining, or their privilege, or whatever they're normally accused of.
LGBTQ community members? No way. If you think "real women" are ostracized for raising this issue, imagine LGBTQ memebers trying to stop this.
So only "real women" are left because of where we've come to in this society. Men need to shut up about women's issues and LGBTQ members need to toe the line or they're "against the cause".
In the end, June probably won't do much. She'll receive a lot of hate for being a middle of the pack runner. It's going to be overreactions on both sides. -
pathfinder wrote:
track chick wrote:
Also why should the emphasis be on 'real women' to end this? Surely it's up to everyone? Who is causing the problem?
Well, men certainly can't do it. They'll be shot down for mansplaining, or their privilege, or whatever they're normally accused of.
LGBTQ community members? No way. If you think "real women" are ostracized for raising this issue, imagine LGBTQ memebers trying to stop this.
So only "real women" are left because of where we've come to in this society. Men need to shut up about women's issues and LGBTQ members need to toe the line or they're "against the cause".
In the end, June probably won't do much. She'll receive a lot of hate for being a middle of the pack runner. It's going to be overreactions on both sides.
a lot of chatter considering that (S)he hasn't even laced them up this season---more of foreshadowing though as a precedent for other athletes transitioning in basketball/swimming etc to potentially dominate the NCAA...it'll be interesting to see what the NCAA/other female competitors/teammates will receive this... -
Not sure if this is a coincidence or the local press is preparing something?
https://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/users/profile/rleathe/
https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/bozemandailychronicle.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/d/9e/d9e1c4a1-f4a4-5550-8c96-19812ba0f0d2/5d5f153572da9.image.jpg
https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/bozemandailychronicle.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/5/06/506de8c0-5327-5bcd-b0f4-b2bda497f0b1/5d5f15366d5f9.image.jpg -
Mike Rozzi wrote:
Not sure if this is a coincidence or the local press is preparing something?
https://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/users/profile/rleathe/
https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/bozemandailychronicle.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/d/9e/d9e1c4a1-f4a4-5550-8c96-19812ba0f0d2/5d5f153572da9.image.jpg
https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/bozemandailychronicle.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/5/06/506de8c0-5327-5bcd-b0f4-b2bda497f0b1/5d5f15366d5f9.image.jpg
Maybe it shows that I'm unwoke or something to even comment on such a thing, but I got to say June looks better as a woman than a man. Given how feminine she looks, I'd say this is someone who is legit transitioning.
The eyeball test is what a lot of this comes down to in terms of societal upset. You see how masculine Cece and Semenya look, where if you ask a young child "is this a man or woman" and they answer man, but when you come across June already you could ask a young child and I'm guessing they are going to answer that's a woman. If a mtf transgender legit looks like a woman is running midpack times I don't see society being outraged. -
Mike Rozzi wrote:
Not sure if this is a coincidence or the local press is preparing something?
https://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/users/profile/rleathe/
https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/bozemandailychronicle.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/d/9e/d9e1c4a1-f4a4-5550-8c96-19812ba0f0d2/5d5f153572da9.image.jpg
https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/bozemandailychronicle.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/5/06/506de8c0-5327-5bcd-b0f4-b2bda497f0b1/5d5f15366d5f9.image.jpg
I would think so since there isn't an article available yet about June... -
To heck with respecting her. She needs to respect the sport. She's a cheater and she knows it.
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Has the word gone completely crazy. This is insane.
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Concentric Hero - Eccentric Zero wrote:
Mike Rozzi wrote:
Not sure if this is a coincidence or the local press is preparing something?
https://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/users/profile/rleathe/
https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/bozemandailychronicle.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/d/9e/d9e1c4a1-f4a4-5550-8c96-19812ba0f0d2/5d5f153572da9.image.jpg
https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/bozemandailychronicle.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/5/06/506de8c0-5327-5bcd-b0f4-b2bda497f0b1/5d5f15366d5f9.image.jpg
Maybe it shows that I'm unwoke or something to even comment on such a thing, but I got to say June looks better as a woman than a man. Given how feminine she looks, I'd say this is someone who is legit transitioning.
The eyeball test is what a lot of this comes down to in terms of societal upset. You see how masculine Cece and Semenya look, where if you ask a young child "is this a man or woman" and they answer man, but when you come across June already you could ask a young child and I'm guessing they are going to answer that's a woman. If a mtf transgender legit looks like a woman is running midpack times I don't see society being outraged.
No, man. -
I would guess that an athlete who realized they had complete control of the outcome of every race they were in would be careful not to look too dominant. Would play their cards close to the chest, so as not to call even more attention. Play it cool, strategic, to keep the game going.
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SDSU Aztec wrote:
doesn't even matter wrote:
come on already.... wrote:
I wonder how long June has been transitioning and if the reduced testosterone level guidelines have been followed. If I'm remembering correctly the testosterone levels have to be reduced down to the upper normal level for females for at least 12 months? Can someone verify that or correct that?
Nope. There are no rules for NCAA. You can pretty much compete as is, as Craig Telfer showed
No, there are rules requiring hormone treatment for NCAA transgenders. It's far from a given that she will run the same times after the transition:
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/07/scientist-racing-discover-how-gender-transitions-alter-athletic-performance-including
This ^, all of the scientific evidence we have on XY women who have made this full transition (which admittedly is a very small sample) suggests she will get significantly slower. It is highly unlikely that she will dominate the women's division if she is actually taking a full year of testosterone suppression. I would be willing to bet anyone who could prove she actually suppressed her T that she doesn't break 15:30. More likely she runs in the 16:00 - 16:30 range. -
The NCAA rule that transgenders must be on hormones for a year is a farce. Birth control would fill that requirement. "Birth control contain man-made forms of 2 hormones called estrogen and progestin." Thus fulfilling the NCAA requirements. June could take birth control for a year and be allowed to race as a female according to the NCAA and never take another hormone again after that year.
At the very least the NCAA should adopt the same scientifically based standards that the IAAF, the IOC, and USATF have imposed. As I understand them they are, one year of having their testosterone below a certain level and testing to make sure their testosterone stays below that level during competition.
Evan if the NCAA adopted that, it’s still not a fair playing field. June has had 21 years to develop more muscle mass, lower body fat, greater bone density (thus the ability to run higher mileage) a greater VO2 max, narrower hips, and no menstrual cycle.
This should not be an issue of what gender someone wants to be. This should be an issue of fair play. I am all for June becoming a female if she chooses to. There are consequences in life when one makes a decision. June has made the decision to transgender to female. One of the consequences of that decision should be that she is not able to compete as a female. That would be fair play.
As NCAA coaches I believe we need to take a stand for our female student athletes. The NCAA and the coaches association has know that this was coming and has turned a blind eye, not wanting to deal with it. As coaches we need to make a stand and force the NCAA to adopt as a bare minimum the USATF standards regarding transgender student athletes.
Paul Pilkington -
BraveyNation brought to you by Champion wrote:
She's kinda cute!
https://www.khq.com/regional/teaser-trailer-meet-june-a-pioneering-university-of-montana-athlete/video_e46cafef-b2ae-5b56-84d6-aad9f98ed464.html
Coming this September Shaun Rainey will be telling the historic story of June Eastwood.
This year, June will become the first openly transgender woman to compete at the Division-1 level in cross country and track. She is a senior at the University of Montana and will begin competition on August 31.
June, who went by Jonathan in high school, is a state championship runner from Belgrade.
Our story will go in depth into June’s life growing up, her decision to come out and why she chose to compete as a transgender athlete.
We will hear from family, friends, coaches and the leading scientific expert on transgender athletes and adviser to the International Olympic Committee. We'll learn about how her efforts may change the scope of transgender athletes competing at the NCAA level moving forward.
June's story will be coming soon to ABC FOX Montana and SWX.
And of course he needs to make a media spectacle out it.
Seems like this is not only about athletic success but also about getting famous.
Just watch that video of him running. He looks less masculine than some other examples, but those shoulders for example are so clearly male.
Luckily this organisation is on it: https://twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1164901804397748224 -
Why does everyone think she will still be able to run 1:55? There is no way that's going to happen.
I'm also sick of the slippery slope argument that "a 4:30 guy would randomly decide to fake transitioning to being a woman". Is there literally any evidence whatsoever that has happened or will happen? It's on par with the "iF gAy pEoPlE cAn gEt mArRiEd wHy cAn'T I mArRy mY hOrSe?" nonsense. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I HIGHLY doubt that anyone would do this. Seriously, just imagine explaining that decision to your friends/teammates/family. There would be backlash from just about everybody on both sides of the political spectrum. That's not worth any amount of money, imo. On the other hand, the world's a crazy place these days.
As one poster noted, there are already rules in place to prevent abuse of this. Should there be more rules and oversight? Sure, probably. -
FM117 wrote:
SDSU Aztec wrote:
2miler wrote:
FM117 wrote:
I'd like to see EVERY female at EVERY heat he's in just refuse to run.
Real women could end this crap in less than a season if they tried.
That would be great if all the women that lined up against him DNS'ed in protest!
That's not how things work. The NCAA determines who is eligible to compete and the other runners don't have the right to choose who they will compete against. They would be risk losing scholarships and eligibility if they did what you suggest.
The only possible good outcome is that if Eastwood runs the same times as she did as a male, the NCAA will be forced to require limits on testosterone levels.
My point is the women go to the meet, if he shows up in their heat just don't run.
Granted if a few women did this they would have a problem, if they all took this
approach the problem would get fixed.
Every meet, every time, just walk off.
There's safety in numbers? If I worked in NCAA management and was spending all my time trying to get the hormone treatment enforced and tests put in place, I would still want all of those women who refused to compete, suspended. They can write letters to the NCAA or talk to reporters, but showing disrespect for a runner that is considered eligible by the NCAA is not acceptable. -
runnersweb wrote:
Has the word gone completely crazy. This is insane.
I agree, this makes zero (0) sense. I want to know what sense of accomplishment this goon is going to get competing against woman. Are people really this desperate to win at something, this takes cheating to a level never seen before.
At least in T&F and Cycling for example it is a fairly level playing field because most are taking some type of performance enhancing substance. -
I wouldn't be so confident, as some are here, that Eastwood will disappear into the middle of the pack. Where trans athletes have been competing in women's sports we are generally seeing them on the podium.
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Armstronglivs wrote:
I wouldn't be so confident, as some are here, that Eastwood will disappear into the middle of the pack. Where trans athletes have been competing in women's sports we are generally seeing them on the podium.
No, this the real deal. I don't give a crap about masters Canadian cycling or D-2 hurdles. This is exactly the scenario people have been wringing their hands over for decades. As a guy, she ran 3:50 for 1500 which would be a non-doper WR for women. We will find out:
1) Will she take advantage of the lax hormone treatment rules, run the same times and basically be a guy with a wig?
2) If she is sincere about becoming a woman and is all-in on the treatments, will she suffer a significant decline in running performance?
or
3) She does the treatment in a manner consistent with IAAF standards, but still dominates women's collegiate distance running.
The future is finally here. -
Armstronglivs wrote:
I wouldn't be so confident, as some are here, that Eastwood will disappear into the middle of the pack. Where trans athletes have been competing in women's sports we are generally seeing them on the podium.
I predict that they'll run fast enough to make qualifiers and maybe win a few races, but then blow away the field when the championship comes around.
