Took the MCAT today, also ran a double

Medicine is much too regulated for tech to conquer quickly. For example, it's a felony to practice medicine without a license.

Also, doctors won't be wiped out as easily as taxi drivers.

shadowsonthescreen wrote:

Rule of two's probably what you are recalling regarding the USMLE Steps...Step 1: Study for 2 weeks, Step 2: Study for 2 days, Step 3: Bring a number 2 pencil.

Also, you know you are old when the scale from the MCAT is no longer recognizable. Hopefully they stopped wasting time with that essay...seriously, a passage from Al Gore writing about the potato famine was supposed to be relevant to discerning my aptitude for medicine?

Graduated med school in the last 5 years. No one studies only 2 weeks for Step 1. The adage when I was in med school was "Step 1: study for 2 months; Step 2: study for 2 weeks; Step 3: study for 2 days."

I studied a dedicated 6 weeks for step 1, 3-4 weeks for step 2, and randomly did a few questions over the course of a couple days for step 3 while an intern.

Also, almost 100% sure step 1 and 2 were single day exams, and step 3 was two days.

The promise of machine learning in medicine is huge, but the results in this area have been dismal up to this point.

Hopefully that will change, but regardless medicine is a skilled profession here for the long haul. New technologies will aid doctors, not replace them.

I'm working for a small startup (named VideaHealth) that came out of MIT that's using ML to detect pathologies based upon dental x-rays, where we're starting out as an aid for the dentist and have some ongoing pilots. You generally need FDA approval to monetize something that affects the treatment for a patient. I know of a few similar use cases out there in medicine such as for detecting breast cancer though I'm not sure what their accuracy and precision numbers are like, it would be good for me to know though.

The process of ML in medicine has to be progressive to be adopted: start as an aid to help providers identify problems that they may miss, while improving their communication with the patient ("hey it's not just me saying this, the AI pointed it out too."). Many people feel like they get different prognoses from every provider that they go to - so this sort of application helps to standardize the level of care.

As a follow-up, due to legal ramifications among other reasons, given that the technology is developing and it is rare to have a 100% confidence score in an identified pathology, you want to have a doctor take a look and make a final decision. If your treatment plan was purely based upon the AI, I think that (though I do not fully understand the legalities) it would be easy for someone to find a way to sue for some percentage of false positives or false negatives come up. It takes immense amounts of data and in my opinion dentistry is one of the best places to start because dentists generally read their own x-rays, and there's plenty of data out there since so many go to the dentist for general-purpose checkups.

Also @OP I hope you crushed the MCAT! My girlfriend has her white-coat ceremony this week having taken it last year herself. Props for getting in the double on the same day.

Pressure Pot wrote:

grazley wrote:

The highest possible score is 528 so you are lying.

I got all of the bonus questions on the back page. Most people forget to turn it over.

This poster is correct. Everyone forgets to turn over the last page. My friend scored an 820 by doing the same thing. It's really true.

Grazley wrote:

Trooth wrote:

Sooner than you think...

Nope. Aiding/assisting with their work, yes. Replacing, no.

someone has to turn the machine on.

And diagnosis is history, tests and experience. Algorithms.

Heck even a dog sniffs cancer at abut 85%. And a cat..

Wow, A cat scan, a Lab test, who needs a dr?

Congrats OP! I was running 90+ miles a week when I took the MCAT, but I took the afternoon off, so you've got me beat there. Hopefully you can beat my score too ;)

I have really fond memories of the grind of studying hard and training even harder. Hope you got the same great experience!

Vascular Surgery wrote:

shadowsonthescreen wrote:

Rule of two's probably what you are recalling regarding the USMLE Steps...Step 1: Study for 2 weeks, Step 2: Study for 2 days, Step 3: Bring a number 2 pencil.

Also, you know you are old when the scale from the MCAT is no longer recognizable. Hopefully they stopped wasting time with that essay...seriously, a passage from Al Gore writing about the potato famine was supposed to be relevant to discerning my aptitude for medicine?

You're probably right. I do remember that adage.

Agreed on the MCAT score: I had no idea what was being referred to in this thread.

I was just talking with one of the OR nurses a few hours ago about the beatdown the first two years of med school was. Had a classmate kill himself and another one have a "psychotic break". Have to wonder if it's worth it at times.

I took a liberal policy towards success in medical school. I may not have earned the highest of grades, but focusing on learning what was important for patient care and general medical knowledge while not caring if i was top-ranked freed me from the stress i saw damaging so many bright people. (Bonus, one of the deans took me aside and said "You are underachieving and seem to be ok with that." I told him yes and that just confused the hell out of him.)

Not surprisingly, as graduation neared most people felt like they had accomplished something of significance. Truth is, all medical school really does is get you ready for internship and residency - that is when $hit gets real. Or at least it did back in the day when you would be the one making life or death decisions in the middle of the night. No idea what they do now for supervision/hand holding.

Sorry to hear you wonder if it was worth it. I definitely enjoy helping people, but i do have a pretty nice work/life balance in my field and in my particular practice. But then again, i was willing to trade income for free time early on and have less money than my peers but way more time away from responsibility.

U dont no wrote:

The promise of machine learning in medicine is huge, but the results in this area have been dismal up to this point.

Hopefully that will change, but regardless medicine is a skilled profession here for the long haul. New technologies will aid doctors, not replace them.

The da vinci surgical robot system is a great example of that.

mikemorton wrote:

Also @OP I hope you crushed the MCAT! My girlfriend has her white-coat ceremony this week having taken it last year herself. Props for getting in the double on the same day.

Why would she have a white coat ceremony in late August? Don't interns/residents start July 1 anymore? I'm apparently really old and out of the loop.

Not a big deal. You and I both took separate paths. I appreciate your viewpoint , and tip my hat to your balance. I felt that my grades/board scores had to be top notch at a very competitive school...in order to get into a top surgical residency...in order to get into a top fellowship...in order to procure a top vascular position. I'm actually sitting here in the surgeon's lounge eating peanut butter crackers for lunch, waiting for the operating room to be turned over as I type this. I've been here since 1:30am because of a ruptured AAA, and have a full case load today. I was supppsed to meet this evening for a workout with my local club at 6, but forgot about a speaking engagement I'd committed to tonight at 7:30 at the hospital. So, I'll just call the day a wash in terms of a run. My wife is visiting our daughter at school, so at least she's not going to be pissed that I'll be coming home late. I only state all of the above to further emphasize the contrast between our lives. Obviously, we both love what we do. Though, in wondering if it was all worth it, more specifically, I'm referring to the sacrifice that it took/takes to get through med school/residency/private practice. I think back on the decade (literally) I spent in a library and/or hospital after finishing college, and sometimes wish I'd spent my youth in a different way. I think of the $200k in debt incurred from med school and into residency, and it's a jagged pill to swallow. Though I did my best, I inevitably missed some essential parts of my kids growing up. I feel like my wife was basically a single mom at times. Unfortunately, ischemic legs and aortic dissections don't come in at scheduled times. Residency also had no 80 hour work week limitations, so I was rarely home. I realize I signed up for this and it was all in the brochure, but it's something that young kids with aspirations in medicine need to consider. The climate of medicine is also changing drastically over many fronts. Though, I'd say if medicine is a calling that you have, don't ignore it. I know that contradicts the majority of what I've highlighted above, but it's the truth.

REallY TruE wrote:

Pressure Pot wrote:

I got all of the bonus questions on the back page. Most people forget to turn it over.

This poster is correct. Everyone forgets to turn over the last page. My friend scored an 820 by doing the same thing. It's really true.

That's how I scored a perfect 528, by turning over the last pages and boy oh boy did it make the difference to get me into Harvard!

Gazley wrote:

Trooth wrote:

Doctors in the very near future are going to be replaced by robots and low level "paraprofessionals". So enjoy your expensive education but at least be aware that your career will be stunningly brief.

Very near future? Nope, not even close.

Sad. Doctor in denial.

Hopefully you still get some joy out of AAA et al. I know I definitely enjoy looking at pictures, but finishing my training with a flagship institution fellowship was still possible despite step 1 scores that were only top third. All of my co-fellows followed the path you did, I just took the road less traveled and think pass fail med schools sold be the norm.

Guessing you would agree with the advice I heard along the way, if you can think of anything other than medicine that you would enjoy doing... Do it. If not, welcome to medicine.

Best of luck and I'll leave you with the quote I remember from one of the many Russian novels I read in lieu of memorizing the different hexokinases... The character as I recall was a woman doctor meditating on her years sacrificed for a medical career, "we all trade our youth for something".

Run007xx wrote:

Gazley wrote:

Very near future? Nope, not even close.

Sad. Doctor in denial.

I am a neurosurgeon in Wayne County. I'm not in denial at all. I just under the reality of the subject, you don't. Machine absolute will aid in certain surgeries and they already do for thing like Ovarian Cancer where the Surgeon is controlling the robot. But, it won't replace Doctors any time soon if at all. Assist, yes, takeover, no.

To the OP: great job, keep up the discipline, it will come in handy.

I work with residents and fellows in the ICU....residency is still tough but not what it used to be. Housestaff suffer from a ‘shiftwork’ mentality and hard decisions are made by fellows and attending instead of interns or residents, even at nighttime. We have an attending in-house every night. It’s probably better for patients but worse for learning. In many residency programs the hard, stressful learning comes at the final year of residency or not until fellowship.

Ironically nearly all med schools are now p/f which has shifted the burden onto step 1. Not uncommon to see M1's doing board prep nowadays. I think the admissions process specifically screens for the uber competitive types who put their life worth onto their scores and grades. Kind of sad given how little relevance that has once you break out of the classroom.