Long Run for the 800?

I thought all girls who identified themselves as "gals" were fat. Are you asking these questions for a friend?

No, despite the cafeteria food, I haven't gotten fat yet....I'm a 400 runner looking to move up to the 800 this season. I run at a Div. III school, and our coach is not too sharp, if you know what I mean.

I have never run cross country and have no idea to train for the 800. I would like to build a base and try and run a decent 800.

Was just wondering what kind of mileage I would have to do and if the long run was essential.

And yes, it would be nice to have a coach that knows what he is doing! My friends agree on that one, too!

Maybe give a run down of what you are currently doing and people could give better advice. It maybe that you should just start out running daily if you are starting from being a 400m person. Good luck.

Build up your long run until you can do 12 to 15 miles as your long run.

Do whatever Seb Coe did.

try to 20-25 % of your Miles per week.

What your MPW?

20-25 mpw right now with no long run and no single run over 4 miles (or 30 minutes).

I ran one 800 indoors in 2:16 (went 63,73) and would like to try it again more even paced.

My 200 PR is 26 low, 400 PR is 58, 500 PR is 1:17, mile PR (in practice ths spring) is 5:16. All of this on 20 mpw.

Our workouts mostly involve things like 150's, 200's and occasionally 300's. We also hit the weight room 4-5x per week which I think is too much.

All in all, I think I would prefer to run longer.

I coach a 41 yr old women with a similar background albeit faster. She ran 2.06 this yr. She'll tell you she wishes she had done long runs when she was 30 and not waited. The longer your runs the more you will be able to handle short recovery stuff that will get you into top shape. Also, the last 200 is all about strenght given that you have enough speed. Your mile time is pretty good off that low mileage given your other times and suggest you could run a pretty good mile with the correct training program over a number of years.

Agreed. She's got talent. Perhaps move up to 40 MPW with a 40 minute 'long run' as part of it, increasing in speed and distance covered within the 40 minutes as she progresses.

I will be controversial and I am assuming you have speed and are a speed based 400m runner rather than one who does mileage already

Do not jump into mileage immediately but first start extending about 50% of your sessions by slowing the work you do slightly,increasing the numbers until you are tired and slow jogging the recoveries where possible. Increase your warm up runs and warm downs by a few extra minutes each week. So a session now of 6x150 at near maximum speed slow walk back would become 12x150 at 90% cruising (or 2 sets of 6x150) with 250 jog.

Any other track sessions I would again increase the warm up and try to do a couple of longer aerobic runs before the session. So 6x150 on its own would be changed by first running 2-4 runs round the outside of the stadium or local park (2x800-1000m) in your trainers. then do the same session as normal but rather than do them as hard do them at 90-95% and try to jog back instead of walk.

On spare days go to the country/park or on the road and do either fast pieces of work from road junction to junction, guaging the speed by the distance for 25-30mins with jog recoveries or if you are tired do a 30-40 min slow jog recovery.

When you are happy with increasing and slowing sessions like this then start to add more time to the slow run until you can run 60-70mins easily and keep increasing the warm ups and downs until they are at least 30 mins each. This may take 1-2 years but it does not matter. Then you can think about real mileage without it becoming frightning or ruining your speed.

Keep racing 400, 4x400 and 200m races for top speed as often as possible. Try to race 2 or more races each meet.

Also try to get most of the interval/repetition work to a minimum of 200m and better 300m to get into the right chemistry. 4/5x300m and 3/4x400m, 3sets of 3/4x200m with 30 secs rest are stock sessions

The coaches who said you need mileage are totally and completely right but you have to get there in stages , phyically and mentally. If you jump into it, it will kill all your current strengths and you will likely fail in misery. I once dated a 2 min 800m runner, when that time was world class. She ran 70mpw regularly.

best of luck

Several things:

1) The most important thing any 'beginning' distance runner can do is run more miles...The time for speed will come later. During these summer months, you should be focusing on just getting out the door and trying to run at least 5-6 days a week. If 20-25 mpw is what you are doing currently, for the next few weeks, try a structure like this:

Week 1:

Sunday - Rest

Monday - 4 miles

Tuesday - 3 miles

Wednesday - 5 miles

Thursday - 4 miles

Friday - 4 miles

Saturday - 6 miles

Total - 26 miles

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Week 2:

Sunday - Rest

Monday - 4 miles

Tuesday - 4 miles

Wednesday - 6 miles

Thursday - 4 miles

Friday - 4 miles

Saturday - 8 miles

Total - 30 miles

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Week 3:

Sunday - Rest

Monday - 5 miles

Tuesday - 4 miles

Wednesday - 7 miles

Thursday - 5 miles

Friday - 4 miles

Saturday - 10 miles

Total - 35 miles

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Week 4:

Sunday - Rest

Monday - 4 miles

Tuesday - 4 miles

Wednesday - 6 miles

Thursday - 4 miles

Friday - 4 miles

Saturday - 8 miles

Total - 30 miles

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If you get through that feeling fine, I'd recommend trying to turn Friday into a tempo run. If at first you have to cut mileage, by all means, go ahead. Judging from your mile PR, you should be able to run about 6:45-7:00 per mile pace quite comfortably. In that case, at first, try running 3 miles at that pace, preferably speeding up as the run continues. In the following weeks work on going a bit farther on each tempo run (maybe increasing only a half-mile to a mile each week) and work on slowly increasing the pace.

Don't worry about doing too much speed before cross country, building your aerobic base will be infinitely more beneficial to your cross country season and ensuing track seasons. Moreover, for someone with your natural speed to begin with, you will find that once you begin doing speed workouts early in the cross country season, your endurance and your speed will begin to improve rapidly.

Feel free to email me with any questions.

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2) Weight training is an important part of any training plan. Personally, I suggest trying to lift twice a week, if the opportunity is available to you. Try the following program a few times when you get in the gym (the first time you lift, start with an easy, comfortable weight...you can always increase it or decrease it after the first set):

Leg Extensions - 3 sets of 15 repetitions

Leg Curls - 3x15

Calf Raises/Press - 3x15

Leg Press - 3x15

Bench Press - 3x10

Tricep Pulldowns (using a rope if you have one) - 3x15

A few notes:

On both the leg extensions and leg curls, be sure that you keep the weight in control on the way up as well as on the way down. As a rule, I try to take twice as much time bringing the weight down as I do pushing it up.

On the leg press, be careful not to bring the weight down any further than 90 degrees and try not to lock your knees at the top of the press.

Get into a solid breathing rythym for all exercises. Exhale while you push up and inhale when you let down.

Try and always lift after you run...this helps prevent overuse injuries and the like.

Form is very important...never disregard using proper form in order to do more weight. If you don't know the correct way to do a workout, ask a nearby trainer or look around on the internet.

3) I, too, focus on the 800 (and the mile) during the track season...Right now, during my buildup for the fall cross country season, my long runs reach an upper limit of 15 miles (on 55-60 mpw), but I build them up. For example, I did a long run of 8 during my second week of summer (back after a week of rest and recovery after track), 10 the next week, then 12...and so forth.

For you, a great goal would be to be able to run 10-12 miles comfortably by the end of summer. For long runs, the pace is less important than simply staying on your feet for such a long period of time. The resulting capillarization from longer runs is irreplaceable, and thus, time spent running should not be traded for a faster pace. My long runs are done at about an average of 7:00 min/mile, but the first several miles are always slower, and I often finish in around 6:30-6:45 for the final 1/4 of the run. For you, just try and keep the pace coversational for the first 3/4 of the run...then, if you feel ready, try and pick up the pace until the end. You don't need to kill yourself, but it doesn't hurt to finish strong.

4) While estimates vary, typically, studies show that the 800 meters is around 65% aerobic (metabolism with oxygen), 30% anaerobic glycolytic (metabolism without oxygen and with the production of lactic acid), and 5% anaerobic alactic (stored energy that can be metabolized without oxygen and without lactic acid production). As a speed-based runner, you have probably fufilled around 80-90% of your potential speed (read anaerobic glycolytic ability), but you have room for vast aerobic improvement...perhaps anywhere from 50-60% of your aerobic potential is still unrealized. As such, you will see the most gains in your running ability if you can capitalize on the room you have to grow aerobically.

5) Lastly, which DIII school do you attend? I'm considering running Division III myself, and I was curious as to the competitive atmosphere...and I guess more specifically, the training environment.

I thought this post was a bit long for anyone with a life. Then the final line stating that the poster is a high school kid looking to go DIII told the story. Not that any of the advice is bad, but ....

Getting on here and bashing your coach (which it seems you and your friends (teammates) do in private) is counter-productive. 2:16 and 5:16 are not slow times for someone moving up from the 400m for the first time. Maybe your coach has a bigger plan in mind and you should talk to that person before getting on here and whining to a bunch of people you don't know from Adam. In theory, you could end up following the advice of a 7th grader that has read "Run With the Best" or some other training book.

Who said that the board represents the best and worst of the sport (Hudson?). This is a post that represents the worst. You have a coach, use that person for what they are worth and discuss any concerns in house. You identify yourself as a "lazy college gal", maybe it isn't the coaching at all. Proper training is only a piece of the success puzzle. Lifestyle and attitude, combined, probably play a bigger role.