Knut Kvalheim : Can you please describe your training with Susanne Wigene, 14.53 5000m runner from Norway?

"..I never believed that this is something you should totally avoid, but you do need to be carefull with this."

why?

-Soup

My experience is that runners who run with to much lactat in their system during base building never build a big enough aerobic base.

To much runnig with to much lactat in later periods seem to burn out runners so they loose their aerobic base.

KnutK

Very interesting and familiar training. Congratulations and good luck in Helsinki

Halvorsen

Susannes' training is almost the same as Marius Bakkens' sessions. I bet she learned a lot - before she went out of "Team Bakken?"

You comment:

He did not write that it was a bad plan. Actually, he wrote that it was to detailed and to difficult, and complicated to understand.

KnutK:

How is your experience with hill training? Is hills included in your programme? In any case how do hill sessions look like and at what time of the year are they done?

Thank your for a very informative and interessting thread!

I have never used hill running to any large extent so my experience is limited.

Tinman suggested that I used som light hill running in my programs duringthe spring this year. I did not include it but will think about it again for next year.

KnutK

Hei Knut

I remember you and brother Arne At Bislett Games and you in 10 k european championship in 27.40 i think. And I wonder about the max speed of Susanne in 200/400 always she has a ver strong last lap. Offcorse she can sprint because of aerbic fit but she also have good speed, very important in championships.

Also wonder what speed is in 20x200m reps durin the spring

I also want to tell about strong Tradision from Norwegian running Male: 70s 4 men in 13.20 Also fr0m befor Stokken 4th under 30 min Boysen wr in 1000 and bronze 800 in Olimpic 1956 also Larsen 3k steeple Helland one of the fastest in the 5k in the 60s 12th Olympic. Rodal OG win 1.42.5 Bakken 13.06 Are Nakkim 27.33 10k and Eurpeansilver in Split

Steeple Svenøy: 8.12 And ofcorse the great legend Ernest Mensen from 1800 runnin over 100k for days in row

Women Grete wrek 3k 8.31 and Marthon 2.24 also 4.00 in 1500

Ingrid 14.37,30.13,2.21h Also two other women around 2.27 Larsen and Hågenstad. Not bad for 4mill people. And offcorse alot af Endurance skiers but not god runneres to heavy 13.57-15.50 for the best Dælie 8.20 5k 96ml O2

KnutK:

Have you used your current high aerobic training methods when you yourself were competing? Specifically, after the U of O? Was that why you continued to improve after college and Pre, who did a lot of lactate and was on the track year-round, basically did not?

In fairness to Prefontaine, I think you have to attribute a lot of his failure to improve after college to being dead.

Blame the bulky shoes

HRE wrote:

In fairness to Prefontaine, I think you have to attribute a lot of his failure to improve after college to being dead.

lame excuse!

I consider Knut a friend, so I would like to lend support for his coaching. It is my analysis that three main elements of Knut's approach are vital to any coach's success in working with distance runners. First, he emphasizes aerobic conditioning as the primary method of improving performance in the long term. Second, he doesn't rush the process. Third, he establishes good communication with his athlete's and seeks to understand who they are and where they are in life and running.

The use of abbreviated rests between rests has hurt more people than it has helped. If one has a very strong aerobic foundation, then short rests won't tear a runner down much in the short-term. In the longer term, an athlete may run the reps faster but their race times will either stay the same or get worse. As a general rule, the benefit of the short but fast reps is not in stamina develoment but, rather, in force production and concurrent efficiency. A runner increase power by recruiting more motor units and in patterns that are effective. Additionally, the expenditure of energy is reduced as coordination improves. The difference between your average marathoner doing 200m reps in 30 seconds and your average mid-distance runner can be as much as 10%. Why? The marathoner has not developed the capacity to generate force needed for such a speed without using a lot of energy. In the converse, a mid-distance runner running at 80% of VO2 max (marathon race pace) is likely to use far more energy than a marathoner doing the same pace.

As you can see, then, a portion of effective training centers around creating force and saving energy. Race pace training does enhance this quality (at or around race pace). The key to use race pace training with caution, with sensibility, and with forethought. It can tear a runner down just as quickly or more quickly as it builds them up. This is key. Knut has done a good job, I believe, with Susanne in this regard. He hasn't abused her with short recoveries between fast reps or had her too these types of sessions too often. All the while, he has kept her aerobic conditioning at a premium.

If you read my posts explaining my own training in theread: "Mr. Renato Canova: Could You Please Answer a Question About Effective Ways to Improve the Lactate Threshold? where I explain my training after Oregon, you wil see the same elements.

KnutK

But I think some component is missing during the long basic period, renato's hill-sprints might take her to a level to compete with the ethiopians. Improved alactic sprint speed will increase her potential at 5000m.

Look at the europeans and american 5k-runners 13.10-13.20 level, it isn't endurance that they lack it's basic speed. The sub-13 guys can cover 400m all-out in 49-51 secs, while these 13.10-13.20 guys only can manage 52-53. So it's not a difference in endurance. It's frustrating to see all these 3.45 1500m runners who got the speed to be succesful at 5k still stuck in 1500m trying to improve. While the 5k-runners with 55-speed are too slow to make it at 5k, even if they put in 100 miles a week and only manage a time just under 14 and no faster given their speed.

A program like Knut's + sprint-sessions and you will get the most out of the athlete.

Your idea is well conceived. Bill Bowerman said often that runners should move up to longer events when they move up in competitive levels. A high school 400m runner should consider moving to the 800m in college. A collegiate 1500m runner should consider moving the 5k after college.

A distance runner may not need hill sprints all year in order to be a good sprinter or even to be able to run fast in 5k races in the summer racing season. Let's use an example of someone who really runs fast: a sprinter. Does an elite 400m sprinter engage in maximum effort 40-50m hill sprints typically in the base phsae (usually the autumn and winter)? Not normally. They do longer reps at slow to moderate speeds, some continuous runs at slow to moderate speeds, and plenty of general strengthening. However more, this is what distance runners do also, and it is what Knut, apparently, is successfully doing with Susanne.

Susanne ran 14.48 tonight, and last week she ran 8.40 on friday then 15.01 by herself in Norway on Sunday....wow what a powergirl!

Congrats to both Susanne and Knut!

30:32 today....WOW thats great!

A huge congratulations to Susanne Wigene!!!

She is the most consistent runner I have ever run with and is thougher in training than most of the boys in Norway!

Very very deserved!