To me, Meza apparent suicide is like when somebody accused of anything- from child abuse to a Ponzi scheme, commits suicide. That proves they were guilty. If somebody accuses you of something and you know you didn't do it, you defend yourself. In Meza case, the evidence is overwhelming, except to a few morons.
He clearly had other issues that lead to his suicide.
Kevin Hadsell wrote:
I hesitate to post and I rarely come to this site. Oddly I followed a google link to this.
I have been the subject of some well-deserved scrutiny and “outing” on this board. I created a terribly negative and potentially career-ending scandal that was picked up by every major news outlet and discussed at great length on this board.
It was an incredibly tough time and it was a low point that I wish on nobody. As a vocal and, at one time, successful part of this community, my personal indiscretions and professional/ethical mistakes had become fodder for a lot of truth, half-truths and partial/untruths to be laid out in front of the people I knew and cared about in the entire community.
At one point RoJo or WeJo (can’t remember now as it’s been like 7 years) reaches out to me. The threads had become pretty damaging and the line of truths a bit blurred. I told them that, as a journalist myself, I can see the need to tell the story and to leave the threads up. I screwed-up, I deserve whatever happens at this point.
However, I can tell you, at the point I hit rock bottom on this, I could see a line in front of me. I could see the line that I would never cross. I could see that line that, sadly, people see as their only way out of the humiliation or the embarrassment. I knew I could never cross it, but believe me when I tell you that line is out there.
I do believe there is a need to draw attention to situations like mine, or cheating, or whatever it is that negatively impacts other people. I can tell you, however, that not everyone has the capacity to handle that and we should be respectful of that.
Thankfully, I was able to get though it. Move on and be grateful to have found success in another field all together. Unfortunately, some people cross that line before they realize that “this too, shall pass”.
Tell the stories. Be mindful of the fact that these are people with families and friends. Be mindful of the fact that there is a line out there that anyone, and I mean anyone, can come to and have to make a decision.
If you are ever in a position where you have been hit with massive adversity (self-inflicted like mine, or, of no fault of your own) you don’t have to cross that line. If you need to talk to someone that has been through it, track me down and I will make the time for you.
If you are telling the stories, focus on the facts at hand. Be respectful.
Just two cents from a former coach.
~Kevin Hadsell
Dear Kevin,
I remember your story well. Thank you for posting your thoughts and insights. I sincerely hope the people from Inside Edition and Good Morning America will read them as well.
I think most reasonable people would agree that Frank painted himself into a corner and that the integrity of the sport matters, but there was no need to relentlessly pursue (Inside Edition) and humiliate (Good Morning America) a man who clearly had his demons, and might have been in dire need of professional help. One would think your (in my opinion) very powerful message would give people on this message board pause to maybe contemplate what has happened, and what could be learned going forward. A couple more people thanked you for your post. Some others, straight back to insulting each other.
Progress can be glacially slow. But I very much appreciate what you tried to achieve.
Be well.
"Control is a myth perpetuated by pride." --
As a man of faith, I believe all things can be forgiven. The greatest of all sins is pride. Frank Meza was imprisoned by his hubris and only the truth could set him free -- yet, he even in his passing, he decided to take "control" once more.
His cheating and lying are/were shameful. Premeditated, skillful, thoroughly planned out -- yet in the end he was never truly at peace with himself.
"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth" -- Thoreau
Those directing their anger towards LRC and MI are mostly the same disillusioned people that bought into Frank's charade over the years. This is despite overwhelming photo/video/testimonial evidence to the contrary. He may have been a great person to his community, but he was also a serial cheater who attempted to boost himself socially and perhaps professionally and therefore financially from his fraudulent actions.
I followed the FM cheating thread in its entirety, as well as all of Dereks posts on MI. While I never posted on the FM thread or MI, both clearly laid out all the facts in their entirety. Derek attempted to reach out and clarify things with Frank but instead was met with false claims and then was met with a strange "cease and desist" threat from the Loyola coach.
I would say 70% of the posts on the FM thread were detailed reviews of further past events or posts appreciating the findings; 25% back and forth bashing of one another and/or trolls; and 5% items that crossed the line. Crossing the line for me was posting information about his professional career, and anyone encouraging fake reviews of his medical career (these were few but clearly inappropriate). I also saw someone claiming that his address was posted (although I never actually saw that myself).
IMO, it was absolutely fair game to dive into his past results and look at photographic evidence when he continually denied any wrongdoing and had people threatening legal action - even when faced with brazenly obvious facts. I also don't have a problem with the school being notified about a serial fraud within their staff, considering he is working with children.
The vast majority of people on the thread wanted and encouraged Frank to come clean. There were even posts that people would be willing to kick in money towards a charity of Frank's choice if he would come clean and tell everyone how he did it. This wasn't just a simple case of someone missing multiple timing mats. There was a curiosity about his tactics which is what also propelled a deeper look into all the events.
No one wanted it to end this way, but it's also not LRC or MI's doing. Anyone blaming Rojo for considering putting up $100,000 if Frank could replicate his performance is even more ludicrous (get over yourself malmo). Similarly, it doesn't sit well with me people placing blame on Franks family, friends, or Loyola. They may or may not have known about his cheating, and encouraged or rewarded it, but it's certainly not their fault either. At the end of the day, it was Frank who cheated in these events for at least a decade and Frank who continued to lie about it and boost himself within the community on false accolades. It may well also end up being Frank who couldn't live with the repercussions (if speculation ends up being true).
I do wish Frank would have come clean and I feel awful for his family, friends, and the community who spoke and thought highly of him. RIP Frank
This is awful. He had a Constitutional right to cheat, and to be free from harrassment by accusers armed with facts. It's a sad commentary on our society when someone is denied their own fantasies and forced to take their own life like this.
Missed Day Pro wrote:
Those directing their anger towards LRC and MI are mostly the same disillusioned people that bought into Frank's charade over the years. This is despite overwhelming photo/video/testimonial evidence to the contrary. He may have been a great person to his community, but he was also a serial cheater who attempted to boost himself socially and perhaps professionally and therefore financially from his fraudulent actions.
I followed the FM cheating thread in its entirety, as well as all of Dereks posts on MI. While I never posted on the FM thread or MI, both clearly laid out all the facts in their entirety. Derek attempted to reach out and clarify things with Frank but instead was met with false claims and then was met with a strange "cease and desist" threat from the Loyola coach.
I would say 70% of the posts on the FM thread were detailed reviews of further past events or posts appreciating the findings; 25% back and forth bashing of one another and/or trolls; and 5% items that crossed the line. Crossing the line for me was posting information about his professional career, and anyone encouraging fake reviews of his medical career (these were few but clearly inappropriate). I also saw someone claiming that his address was posted (although I never actually saw that myself).
IMO, it was absolutely fair game to dive into his past results and look at photographic evidence when he continually denied any wrongdoing and had people threatening legal action - even when faced with brazenly obvious facts. I also don't have a problem with the school being notified about a serial fraud within their staff, considering he is working with children.
The vast majority of people on the thread wanted and encouraged Frank to come clean. There were even posts that people would be willing to kick in money towards a charity of Frank's choice if he would come clean and tell everyone how he did it. This wasn't just a simple case of someone missing multiple timing mats. There was a curiosity about his tactics which is what also propelled a deeper look into all the events.
No one wanted it to end this way, but it's also not LRC or MI's doing. Anyone blaming Rojo for considering putting up $100,000 if Frank could replicate his performance is even more ludicrous (get over yourself malmo). Similarly, it doesn't sit well with me people placing blame on Franks family, friends, or Loyola. They may or may not have known about his cheating, and encouraged or rewarded it, but it's certainly not their fault either. At the end of the day, it was Frank who cheated in these events for at least a decade and Frank who continued to lie about it and boost himself within the community on false accolades. It may well also end up being Frank who couldn't live with the repercussions (if speculation ends up being true).
I do wish Frank would have come clean and I feel awful for his family, friends, and the community who spoke and thought highly of him. RIP Frank
I am so effing tired of this narrative.
You can criticize let’s run and Derek without condoning the actual cheating. You can criticize the Internet mob mentality: you can criticize the needless have cyber bullying.
It’s a false equivalency among the bullies.
You don’t feel bad at all. You are just trying to look like you care. If you really felt bad you’ encourage derek and Letsrun to take down the threads/articles.
Any reputable mental health professional will tell you the kind of things LetsRun and MI did can push you over the edge.
But almost no one inquired into his mental state. It’s too easy to make a half-truth accusation. You never know the person on the other end
I hope to god MI and Letsrun didn’t cause this. It will only embolden the trolls and Derek.
Not only did Frank not come clean publicly and let the healing begin, he wasn't even honest with his wife who still believes that he ran the races.
As more photos came out and she was going to see the truth and know him to be a liar (along with everybody else on the planet), perhaps that stress was too much for him.
As one who contributed in that thread and sent emails to race directors under my real name, I'll say right now that I will do so again on the next thread about a cheater. I am comfortable doing so because I don't know that we have falsely accused anyone and we are careful to amass a lot of evidence before we make any definitive claim.
RossiCheated wrote:
Not only did Frank not come clean publicly and let the healing begin, he wasn't even honest with his wife who still believes that he ran the races.
As more photos came out and she was going to see the truth and know him to be a liar (along with everybody else on the planet), perhaps that stress was too much for him.
As one who contributed in that thread and sent emails to race directors under my real name, I'll say right now that I will do so again on the next thread about a cheater. I am comfortable doing so because I don't know that we have falsely accused anyone and we are careful to amass a lot of evidence before we make any definitive claim.
While the outcome is extremely regrettable, discussing evidence of cheating on a running site’s message board is not cyber bullying.
As others have said, the majority of posts reacted negatively to contacting his employer or the like. Most were not looking to shame him.
Greg wrote:
Frank Meza found dead in LA River
That is auto generated on the front page
That's the site trying to capitalize on a death people talk about
Character assassination is one of the worst forms of cheating.
Yet almost all of the people who did this, don't hold themselves responsible for their actions, including one of the founders, and they continue to do the same thing on this thread.
[quote]LetsRun.com wrote:
Please be respectful of Frank's family. Jokes about Frank's death will not be tolerated , nor will posts blaming Good Morning America, the LA Times or internet mobs.
This thread should be, but is not in the least respectful to Frank's family.
Instead of what's happening, those who perpetrated this outcome should most definitely be held responsible for their actions.
Greg wrote:
Frank Meza found dead in LA River
That is auto generated on the front page
That's the site trying to capitalize on a death people talk about
Character assassination is one of the worst forms of cheating.
Yet almost all of the people who did this, don't hold themselves responsible for their actions, including one of the founders, and they continue to do the same thing on this thread.
LetsRun.com wrote:
Please be respectful of Frank's family. Jokes about Frank's death will not be tolerated , nor will posts blaming Good Morning America, the LA Times or internet mobs.
This thread should be, but is not in the least respectful to Frank's family.
Instead of what's happening, those who perpetrated this outcome should most definitely be held responsible for their actions.
I did not read the entire original thread. Just a few pages and saw a mix of anonymous internet comments of varying quality and some worthwhile investigatory posts.
That said, this is what I wrote to other LRC staff:
A 70 year old guy with a very comfortable life and prestigious job who jumps through that many hoops to cheat for no financial reward must have some issues that explain both his cheating and his death. I do think his death (suicide presumably) is a reminder that there are real people on the other side of the internet, and this isn’t all some game. On the other hand, if being exposed is enough to push him to suicide, there’s something deeper than marathon cheating going on. I don’t think it’s reasonable to blame critical posts on a message board or the investigation into his performances for his death.
Exposing these cheats is not some evil thing, in general.
I’ve run faster than 2:53 one time. I now have two jobs and two kids and a slowly aging, heavier body. Im trying to run that fast again with the little time I have. I manage 50 mpw and am enjoying it. A run like 2:53 by a 70 year old is an inspiring feat to keep in mind. On the other hand, we all deserve to know if that achievement is a hoax.
As for trolls and bad faith posts, we can always introspect on our moderating, but I do not think vitriol toward a cheater justifies locking a thread.
tartarm wrote:
You don’t feel bad at all. You are just trying to look like you care. If you really felt bad you’d encourage derek and Letsrun to take down the threads/articles.
I'm sure they want to do that right away! But it's probably too late at this point.
tartarm wrote:
Missed Day Pro wrote:
Those directing their anger towards LRC and MI are mostly the same disillusioned people that bought into Frank's charade over the years. This is despite overwhelming photo/video/testimonial evidence to the contrary. He may have been a great person to his community, but he was also a serial cheater who attempted to boost himself socially and perhaps professionally and therefore financially from his fraudulent actions.
I followed the FM cheating thread in its entirety, as well as all of Dereks posts on MI. While I never posted on the FM thread or MI, both clearly laid out all the facts in their entirety. Derek attempted to reach out and clarify things with Frank but instead was met with false claims and then was met with a strange "cease and desist" threat from the Loyola coach.
I would say 70% of the posts on the FM thread were detailed reviews of further past events or posts appreciating the findings; 25% back and forth bashing of one another and/or trolls; and 5% items that crossed the line. Crossing the line for me was posting information about his professional career, and anyone encouraging fake reviews of his medical career (these were few but clearly inappropriate). I also saw someone claiming that his address was posted (although I never actually saw that myself).
IMO, it was absolutely fair game to dive into his past results and look at photographic evidence when he continually denied any wrongdoing and had people threatening legal action - even when faced with brazenly obvious facts. I also don't have a problem with the school being notified about a serial fraud within their staff, considering he is working with children.
The vast majority of people on the thread wanted and encouraged Frank to come clean. There were even posts that people would be willing to kick in money towards a charity of Frank's choice if he would come clean and tell everyone how he did it. This wasn't just a simple case of someone missing multiple timing mats. There was a curiosity about his tactics which is what also propelled a deeper look into all the events.
No one wanted it to end this way, but it's also not LRC or MI's doing. Anyone blaming Rojo for considering putting up $100,000 if Frank could replicate his performance is even more ludicrous (get over yourself malmo). Similarly, it doesn't sit well with me people placing blame on Franks family, friends, or Loyola. They may or may not have known about his cheating, and encouraged or rewarded it, but it's certainly not their fault either. At the end of the day, it was Frank who cheated in these events for at least a decade and Frank who continued to lie about it and boost himself within the community on false accolades. It may well also end up being Frank who couldn't live with the repercussions (if speculation ends up being true).
I do wish Frank would have come clean and I feel awful for his family, friends, and the community who spoke and thought highly of him. RIP Frank
I am so effing tired of this narrative.
You can criticize let’s run and Derek without condoning the actual cheating. You can criticize the Internet mob mentality: you can criticize the needless have cyber bullying.
It’s a false equivalency among the bullies.
You don’t feel bad at all. You are just trying to look like you care. If you really felt bad you’ encourage derek and Letsrun to take down the threads/articles.
Any reputable mental health professional will tell you the kind of things LetsRun and MI did can push you over the edge.
But almost no one inquired into his mental state. It’s too easy to make a half-truth accusation. You never know the person on the other end
I hope to god MI and Letsrun didn’t cause this. It will only embolden the trolls and Derek.
+1
People STILL complain about not being able to start threads about MR. He wasn't setting world records. He doesn't have more race results to look into. Trying to couch the thread as just upholding the integrity of the sport is a gross mischaracterization. All of the cheating threads have legitimate investigation being done, but none of them have been able to keep posters from crossing the line, which is why they are as despicable as the cheating.
erik wrote:
I don’t think it’s reasonable to blame critical posts on a message board or the investigation into his performances for his death.
Exposing these cheats is not some evil thing, in general.
And what about personal attacks and trying to get him fired? Such things that exist in all of the cheating threads that you allow on your site?
It's not just all investigative journalism and it never has been.
erik wrote:
I do not think vitriol toward a cheater justifies locking a thread.
You do not think. Okay.
The point is that you still don't get it. You have labeled someone a cheater for life, gone at this point, based
on circumstantial evidence. You're the jury, judge, ultimately the executioner, and even past death you continue.
Claiming someone is an idiot while defending a 70+ year old with a history of DQs and mass photo evidence against him running a World Record time... while stopping for a "piss break"..... and almost breaking his AG WR in the 5k en route. Nice.
LetsRun.com wrote:
If you want to post on this thread, you must register as we've closed this thread to non-registered posters to try to cut down on insensitive remarks, needless speculation or blame. If you want to post rationally and respectfully about the matter, register and do so.
.
Why don’t you put an effort to make it a permanent policy site wise? Like studentdr network and valuemd does? Heck, even a site call bullshido requires registration to post. You guys simply don’t want to step up to the plate and now that this unfortunate incident occurred are trying to save face.
Make it permanent!!
I think a larger question is what is making our society so sick, that a guy who seemingly led a fantastic life, would want to cheat ?
We seem so preoccupied with status and achievements that we do stupid stuff so we get praise ?
I'm saddened by the whole affair though I did not know about it till today.
Part Time Runner wrote:
To me, Meza apparent suicide is like when somebody accused of anything- from child abuse to a Ponzi scheme, commits suicide. That proves they were guilty. If somebody accuses you of something and you know you didn't do it, you defend yourself. In Meza case, the evidence is overwhelming, except to a few morons.
He clearly had other issues that lead to his suicide.
Not necessarily other issues, there was a time when a gentleman caught cheating would carry out the honourable and expected course of action - and reach for his service revolver.
DoctorJ -- Pentagon Papers would have never been published without anonymity. Free speech is essential in a democracy. Cyber-bullying should not be allowed to apply to adults. My-teenage daughters deal with it -- and they are not 70 year MD's. It seems unfair to passive-aggressively attack Letsrun.com on their registration policy. It's moot.
FM could have grown a beard, retired from Kaiser, sold everything, ghosted all technology, packed a bag, and disappeared into a hobo--journeyman--drifter type life...his wife too. Greece? Spain? Costa Rica?
He could have just come clean too.
But instead he ended it.
FM was in a deep-dark-place on that "last" run. I feel bad for him. His lies trapped him.
Where were his friends and family? Why didn't someone close to him get him to a therapist? Maybe when you create an iconic persona built on years of lies, you become impenetrable!
Lastly -- FM is a complicated man. I think that is what makes this topic so addictive. He was educated, articulate, affluent, respected, athletic, charismatic, accomplished. Yet, that was not enough. He needed more...and he kept chipping away. Just a little faster. Just a bit more spry. How about a world record? Yeah -- just a little more...
This would make an amazing screenplay. Who plays FM? Antonio Banderas?
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