Hoka Carbon X Project

plebeian wrote:

If any athlete were truly serious they'd just get Nikes. It's been proven that the 4% DOES NOT COME FROM THE CARBON plate but the foam. Either people are still just too f'd to realize this or really that dumb.

It has not been proven that the 4% comes from the foam and not the carbon plate. The study that tried to say that was very poorly done. Just go read up on it, they didn't even separate the foam from the plate when trying to show this. If it was all about the foam then the Reebok run fast pro shoes would have the same effect. They don't.

kudos for giving clowns , race clown shoes. Expect Steph Bruce will be giving more unwanted opinions on other peoples lives.

Carbon? Maybe a carbon plate in a shoe, like Nike? I wouldn't be surprised if more manufacturers start using a carbon plate. too. Mizuno has been using a plastic wave plate in many of their shoes for almost two decades. Maybe a plate will be found to be optimal in running shoes. That combined with a tuned foam may be the perfect shoe.

The VF is a combination. The foam yes, plate uh-huh combine those with the cascading 10mm drop and that's apart of the efficiency claim.

With Hoka they have a more rigid EVA with a rockered plate but at 28mm heel 27mm forefoot only 1mm drop.

I've tried zoom fly SP it felt lighter/more stable than zoom flyknit and felt the propulsion but little impact...Anyone try the 7oz Reebok floatride run fast? Everytime I look at these it seems like a more solid/responsive Adios

well actually wrote:

plebeian wrote:

If any athlete were truly serious they'd just get Nikes. It's been proven that the 4% DOES NOT COME FROM THE CARBON plate but the foam. Either people are still just too f'd to realize this or really that dumb.

It has not been proven that the 4% comes from the foam and not the carbon plate. The study that tried to say that was very poorly done. Just go read up on it, they didn't even separate the foam from the plate when trying to show this. If it was all about the foam then the Reebok run fast pro shoes would have the same effect. They don't.

GFY ZOOMZOOMZOOM PRICK

That was a good reply! I've tried both the Nike 4% and the Reebok Run Fast, and you're right - it's not the foam.

The NAZ elite are on $100,000 contracts. Jim has a Hoka salary of $50,000 with $20,000 capped bonuses (a few major races excluded from the cap).

Mizuno fanboy wrote:

Sage has run 2:16'.

Sage beated Anton Krupicka at Speedgoat 50k

Mizuno fanboy wrote:

Sage has run 2:16'.

Yes, but not recently and he's still a pro ultra runner.

0-10

lake mary rd wrote:

The NAZ elite are on $100,000 contracts. Jim has a Hoka salary of $50,000 with $20,000 capped bonuses (a few major races excluded from the cap).

lol $100k for some 28min 10k runners? no chance. probably half that before bonus structure

having a good laugh when I notice that anyone actually paying attention to what's going on with cheater-shoes is now thought to be me, like I am the only one calling people out on this stuff or somehow started it

but yeah, it's not just the foam, at all, that was an off-the-cuff opinion by someone who actually never tested that opinion, and yeah there are other shoes with pebax that aren't anywhere near 4% (or even 1%)

London is going to be really interesting...

well actually wrote:

plebeian wrote:

If any athlete were truly serious they'd just get Nikes. It's been proven that the 4% DOES NOT COME FROM THE CARBON plate but the foam. Either people are still just too f'd to realize this or really that dumb.

It has not been proven that the 4% comes from the foam and not the carbon plate. The study that tried to say that was very poorly done. Just go read up on it, they didn't even separate the foam from the plate when trying to show this. If it was all about the foam then the Reebok run fast pro shoes would have the same effect. They don't.

That’s about right. The same logic applies to any proof that the plate does anything. There is none. It’s a gimmick.

btw the carbon rocket doesn't use EVA, it uses a 4th or 5th generation RMAT foam, it's probably almost as good as TPU at this point, would be interesting to see a lab test someday

https://fellrnr.com/wiki/RMAT

zoomzoomzoom wrote:

having a good laugh when I notice that anyone actually paying attention to what's going on with cheater-shoes is now thought to be me, like I am the only one calling people out on this stuff or somehow started it

but yeah, it's not just the foam, at all, that was an off-the-cuff opinion by someone who actually never tested that opinion, and yeah there are other shoes with pebax that aren't anywhere near 4% (or even 1%)

London is going to be really interesting...

Do you have any proof that shoes with pebax aren’t near 4%? Or for that matter any proof that the 4% are any better other than studies done by Nike or thrown together by media firms?

Jim's base contract with Hoka is allegedly 100k with multiple win bonuses. I believe his win bonus for WSER was 100k. The NAZ elite guys make next to nothing (well maybe Fauble will make more now). No one knows who they are outside of Fauble and that was only since a few days ago.

I guess we'll know all what all of this super secret stuff is next weekend in Northern California. Any guesses as to which idea they are "spinning" off from? I'm guessing some sort of Sub-2 with all the Fleet Feet Fatties cheering on the course.

I posted this on the other HOKA thread.

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I'm hearing rumors and seeing mile markers for a HOKA sponsored 100k starting in Folsom CA and heading down the american river parkway into sacramento.

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i heard that it's a closed 100k to be held on either may 4 or may 5. Based on where the mile markers are placed, i'm guessing that when they hit 30k miles, they follow the Jed Smith course and use the Jed Smith finish line.

https://www.buffalochips.com/jed-smith-ultras/#about

Course Description:

All races start at the west end of the parking lot and do a 2-4 mile out-an-back heading east through the parking lot and continuing upstream along the south bank of the river, then turning around and coming back to the start/finish line. Then you will start running the 4.9 mile loop course from there up to the Guy West Bridge crossing the river to the north bank and running back to Watt Avenue Bridge crossing the river again and running through the parking lot to complete the loop course and repeated 2 to 10 times depending on distance of your race.

Zoom zoo zoom can suck my balls wrote:

well actually wrote:

It has not been proven that the 4% comes from the foam and not the carbon plate. The study that tried to say that was very poorly done. Just go read up on it, they didn't even separate the foam from the plate when trying to show this. If it was all about the foam then the Reebok run fast pro shoes would have the same effect. They don't.

GFY ZOOMZOOMZOOM PRICK

If the vapor fly got all of its pop from a carbon fiber shank, then you'd get the same 4% reaction from the carbon rocket and the zoom fly flyknit. Wait, you dont? hmm.... if the answer to creating a vapor fly competitor was sooo easy, then someone would've responded right away. What makes the Zoom X so special is how it is soft and still provides energy return. Try the Zoom Fly Flyknit, (which has a carbon fiber plate) and then try the vaporfly. They are not the same.