I believe in free will because God does.
I believe in free will because God does.
Did someone point a gun at your head and tell you to start this thread?
B. Libet did an experiment where subjects had to look at a clock, and decide whether to move their right or left hand. A device was put on their head to measure brain waves. Patients were asked to recall where the clock hand was one they made a decision to move their hand.
The researchers noticed that the following chain of events occurred 80% of the time: a "readiness potential" was measured -> a few hundred milliseconds passed -> time in which the patient thought they made the decision is hit -> patient moves hand.
So some mystery thing was going on in the brain before the subjects were even aware they had made a choice. The subconscious made a decision and our conscious mind simply recorded it as a decision that IT made.
Other studies have found similar things. Some with greater time lags.. like several seconds.
I think another group of researchers did a similar test to Libet. The researchers instead used a mouse movement rather than moving their arm. They found that altering the lag on the mouse affected when the test subjects thought they had made the decision to move it.. Which means our sense of free will is affected by when we perceive things, rather than our free will decisions taking place independent of any stimuli involved in the consequence of our decisions.
There are no "laws" that "govern" the universe, only patterns in events deduced from observations. Only induction, the weakest form of logic, informs you that these patterns will repeat. So it is a fallacy that physical state A predicts physical state B. Nothing is predetermined.
This proves that your belief is unsubstantiated, in which sense you're wrong in confidently declaring it.
I love the intellectual BS that comes along on these threats daily. What a bunch of crap being spouted by nerds who think they are smart. There I have shown you how free will works. No one made me say this....ha, ha.
Great. I don’t need to take responsibility for my actions then.
Profound, intriguing...USELESS.
You should find something more constructive to do in your life bro.
doctorj wrote:
Profound, intriguing...USELESS.
You should find something more constructive to do in your life bro.
Why bother? It's gonna work out just the way it will.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice wrote:
rushdoes wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE2WjSmUcRAIf you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice
I will choose a path that's clear
I will choose free will
Bad Wigins wrote:
There are no "laws" that "govern" the universe, only patterns in events deduced from observations. Only induction, the weakest form of logic, informs you that these patterns will repeat. So it is a fallacy that physical state A predicts physical state B. Nothing is predetermined.
This proves that your belief is unsubstantiated, in which sense you're wrong in confidently declaring it.
Truly a pompous idiot and so ignorant it is stunning.
Why is it a problem for society to not believe in free will then? Wouldn't they not have a choice in what they believe and it doesn't matter?
it's really hard to just generalize about this topic like a lot of you are doing.
bump
kyoto wrote:
Bad Wigins wrote:
There are no "laws" that "govern" the universe, only patterns in events deduced from observations. Only induction, the weakest form of logic, informs you that these patterns will repeat. So it is a fallacy that physical state A predicts physical state B. Nothing is predetermined.
This proves that your belief is unsubstantiated, in which sense you're wrong in confidently declaring it.
Truly a pompous idiot and so ignorant it is stunning.
You realize I know there's just one of you, right? You always say the same thing, and it hasn't worked yet.
If you can define what would constitute proof then we can begin to have a meaningful discussion
Bad Wigins wrote:
There are no "laws" that "govern" the universe, only patterns in events deduced from observations. Only induction, the weakest form of logic, informs you that these patterns will repeat. So it is a fallacy that physical state A predicts physical state B. Nothing is predetermined.
This proves that your belief is unsubstantiated, in which sense you're wrong in confidently declaring it.
Um , no. Non-falsifiability rather than induction is the basis of what we call “laws” of physics. This is not a logical but rather a pragmatic process.
We will be free.
I don't know what people mean by "free will." Instead, I will address a separate topic:
Is a human being like physical phenomenon that is subject to a universal description, i.e., physics all the way down, or is there some aspect of a human being which is beyond a universal description?
The natural thesis is that a human is just a way of classifying a physical pattern that is completely subject to a universal description for which scientific methods could in principle objectively describe. In this case, there is no opportunity for a human being to behave in a way that is independent of physics, e.g., independent of any causal chain of events.
It is possible that the natural thesis is wrong. We don't know. I submit intelligence machines based on understood physics will some day be built that are more performant than humans in nearly every objective performance measure; this undermines human beings as enjoying a special non-physical status, but there may still be something about humans that we can't easily measure that they have and the intelligent machines we construct do not have, e.g., consciousness --- whatever that means, if anything.
