We don't have free will - prove me wrong

You are right. That's exactly what the 20th century Nicola Tesla said. He thought the world should study the subject to benefit mankind.

I agree with you.

Yeah but you're assuming that whatever "will" is exists outside of the the bounds that govern the universe? How is that even possible?

If you assume that "will" exists within the confounds of this universe, then yes we have free will.

Essentially the question is meaningless.

FreeWill wrote:

haha SO yeah we don't have free will - sorry.

If you think about it for a second it doesn't make any sense that there would be what people think of as free will, there is no reason for randomness. Everything that happens is because of everything that led to that thing happening and there is no way around that.

I know it is a problem for society to not believe in free will but it is what it is

Makes sense.

I'm trying to get to a 9 foot broad jump on concrete or at the gym on the gym mat right now.

If I had free will then I would be able to just will myself to it. Seeing that I have tried everything to get to a 9 foot broad jump and am at only 8 foot 7 right now at the max and 8 foot 3 on average then I must not have free will. Because if I had free will then I would be able to do 9.

Your saying makes sense.

Jah boi wrote:

Yeah but you're assuming that whatever "will" is exists outside of the the bounds that govern the universe? How is that even possible?

If you assume that "will" exists within the confounds of this universe, then yes we have free will.

Essentially the question is meaningless.

You had no choice but to respond with that post.

One of the Tenants wrote:

Jah boi wrote:

Yeah but you're assuming that whatever "will" is exists outside of the the bounds that govern the universe? How is that even possible?

If you assume that "will" exists within the confounds of this universe, then yes we have free will.

Essentially the question is meaningless.

You had no choice but to respond with that post.

Lmao so the only way you would know that is if you knew the position/movement/energy of every single atom that exists in the universe. Which is impossible unless you are something outside of the known universe.

So it's impossible to prove determinism.

Jah boi wrote:

One of the Tenants wrote:

You had no choice but to respond with that post.

Lmao so the only way you would know that is if you knew the position/movement/energy of every single atom that exists in the universe. Which is impossible unless you are something outside of the known universe.

So it's impossible to prove determinism.

Again you had no choice.

One of the Tenants wrote:

Jah boi wrote:

Lmao so the only way you would know that is if you knew the position/movement/energy of every single atom that exists in the universe. Which is impossible unless you are something outside of the known universe.

So it's impossible to prove determinism.

Again you had no choice.

Sure he did. You'd be correct that he doesn't have the choice to travel backwards in time and change his mind but he certainly had a choice at the time.

I have so much free will that I am choosing to not even respond to your thread.

You need to properly define each term to have a discussion on the topic. With a different meaning of "free" and/or "will" you will come to different conclusions than somebody who defines them as something else.

Since posting this I have spent the last hour on reading literature on the internet - i'll post a few of the quotes I've found and i'm sure if you google them you'll be able to find the sources.

"We are already locked in to everything else that is going to happen in the entire future of the universe. If you knew all the causal principles and had enough information about the present, you could predict the future with 100% accuracy.:"

AKAAAA - BECAUSE we could never ever have all of this information there is no way to truly ever predict things but still i feel like the quote makes sense.

"Even quantum observables, like momentum, energy, spin, etc. which are frequently considered to be the starting point of quantum mechanics, are not considered ontological in this approach. Thus, various uncertainty relations between quantum variables do not lead to indeterminism."

AKAAAA - Haters that say that quantum mechanics is proof of indeterminism aren't actually proving anything - by saying that identical experiments yield different variations of something does nothing to prove that in a linear timeline that the first time you preformed the experiment things would have occurred differently.

"Randomness," makes no sense, if every single thing at the atomic level, at any level, like the smallest level you could even think of is IDENTICAL until the EXACT MOMENT in question (if you knew everything about everything about every single thing) there would be only one possible thing that could happen when it happens.

boom

FreeWill wrote:

haha SO yeah we don't have free will - sorry.

If you think about it for a second it doesn't make any sense that there would be what people think of as free will, there is no reason for randomness. Everything that happens is because of everything that led to that thing happening and there is no way around that.

I know it is a problem for society to not believe in free will but it is what it is

Not having free will is just an excuse unsuccessful or unhappy people make as to why they are unsuccessful or unhappy. Obviously, we can't do whatever we want, there are laws and constraints such as the means to obtain food and shelter.

But we have pretty decent leeway to choose the course of our lives. And if you are someone who is financially successful then you have a lot more. When you don't depend on a paycheck to survive, which is attainable for a lot of people you do have a lot of chances to pursue whatever you want.

This subject is way over your heads. Most of the responses show how limited your minds are...but again it is not your fault.

So what you are really saying,... is that you are a Calvinist....and not an Arminian.

Okay then buddy riddle me this, if you could rewind time (which is linear as we know it in this universe - aka you're literally rewinding a video and clicking play at the exact moment where you decided to respond to this post trying to shred unsuccessful people) what would (at the exact moment you decided to respond) have changed to make you decide not to respond? if everything at the "atomic smallest ever ever ever level," was identical there would be no possible reason for you to not have done what you did.

That's what I can't get over tbh

This is an atheistic version of a debate that two different groups of christians have been having for well over a thousand years...predestination vs free will. Calvinism vs Arminianism And you've arrived at an orthodox conclusion.

Yes, we do, and here is the proof

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIzQyskCEPs

rushdoes wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE2WjSmUcRA

If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice