Am I or is my coach wrong?

Listen to what Colder and Wiser has to say.

As a freshmen who's clearly invested in your running you have a really unique opportunity to build a great culture in your track program. If next year you're the fastest guy and willing to take one for the team by racing an extra race when asked even if it costs you a second or two in your preferred event that will really make an impression on the younger guys. The time will come when you can ask out of a race now and then to focus on one event, but that respect from the coach will be earned through a few seasons of hard work and setting an example for the younger guys.

By the time you graduate you could have a whole team of sub-5 guys, and that will have been largely because of you. If you have some friends a year below you get them out for a Summer of Malmo. You'll be ready for a big year. And if it all does work out that'd be a fun college essay to write- you lead by setting a quiet example and are now part of a successful track program.

The fun thing about team culture is it really has inertia. I'm sure some of the other old-timers here will agree. Programs that have a great culture will have a great culture for a long time, and the same with a lousy culture. And if you look closely enough you can trace it back to one or two change-makers. As someone who was part of a change-making generation (for good) in high school it was really satisfying to look back and see the program continue to flourish.

Well obviously, like most people in an argument I want to be right. I just wanted to hear a solid answer about why I should have run the mile besides all this team culture stuff which we don’t have much of.

That’d sound really cool but I doubt I’d be able to change much. My coaches aren’t even really committed to the program and I think they just do it for the money. I put in 50-55 miles a week during the XC season and no one joined me throughout the whole thing. All my other teammates could care less about it and only ended up running 10-15 miles at most. I don’t see that changing with just me working hard just because of the foundation of the culture that is already present.

Listen to me:

If you can, leave that program. Move as soon as possible. However you can.

You do have talent. You are on the wrong team for that talent.

You should not limit yourself to the 400/800, when it is clear you have the endurance for the longer events.

Additionally, your greatest friend in dealing with garbage coaches is compliance. Just do what they say, but that doesn't mean do it well. Another poster mentioned screwing around in the 1600: your coach can't stop you from doing that, and he can't even prove you did it if you don't admit it. Save it for the 800, when you have to do both.

Take the opportunity these next few meets to improve your 1600 time, and familiarize yourself with the race. The endurance will benefit you in the 800.

Until you can leave that team altogether, do what you can, with what you have.

The most important thing here being is that you are not on the right team for your abilities.

If you get a better team, you will improve massively in every event.

It is okay to prefer certain events, but don't limit yourself.

tl;dr, your coach is in the wrong, but you can't do anything about it except switch teams as soon as you can.

Also, just wanted to mention that I like "Colder and Wiser's" advice, but I'd say its really not applicable.

Your coach will resent you for that kind of behavior, not encourage it. You probably know this.

In addition, your teammates likely will not join you in it, unless you have a decent-sized group of like-minded friends who are willing to do the same with you.

Trying to make a team out of a shitshow only breeds resentment from the shitty coaches that made that culture, as they believe you think you know better than them; and them from the other, mediocre runners, who only see an arrogant underclassmen showing them up physically and in character.

That is not to say either of those things are true, but both coach and athlete alike will feel that way.

Once again: get out while you can.

Mention the situation to your parents, tell them you're not happy on the team, and transfer while you're still a freshman/rising sophomore, before it becomes too difficult to do so.

I wish. There’s a school close by my house that has an insane track program. They’ve been state champs for the past 3 years in XC and the coach seems like he really knows what he’s doing and overall the culture over there is significantly better than whatever crapfest goes on here. I don’t want to limit myself to the 400/800 but I would appreciate it if my coach could just understand that I don’t want to run the mile every. single. race. We only have two more meets until championships and one of them being a relay meet means I couldn’t get a better seed time for any individual events (and you know our relays are most likely garbage). So in my eyes, I obviously think I’m right I mean who wouldn’t think their own opinion is correct.

This isn't going very well for you, is it?

You're a freshman. You do not know what is best for your running career. You ran 50+ miles a week as a freshman in XC, and you want to specialize in the 400/800? No. You'll never be a specialist in the 400. The best compromise here is that you're a 1600/800 guy who very occasionally runs a 400.

You want the culture to change? Change it. Right now, you just sound more like a little turd who isn't getting his way. Do you care at all about the future of your team? Those upper classmen will be gone soon, and there will be younger guys coming through as you move through high school. Set the good example for them, they'll look up to you, and you guys could end up being pretty decent in the next couple of years.

Trust me - a team's success in high school has A LOT more to do with the upper classmen's attitude than it does the prowess of the coach. You call it "all this team culture stuff" when you just don't know what you're talking about. Culture is -everything- in high school cross country and track. Ever heard of Brentwood? Probably not. Look them up and see how successful they were in the midst of a much, much, much more dramatic coach/athlete issue than you're complaining about.

This is all on you, bro. Grow up a little and be the present and future of your team.

9/10

I assume no one is actually whiny or entitled enough to really believe they are in the right to scratch an event at a meet out of pettiness. good job getting replies though.

now, just for academic's sake, lets make believe this actually is real.

I was in a similar situation in high school. This wasn't running but I think its related. I was a diver on our swim team (like springboard diving with the flips and stuff. Just in case you aren't familiar with the structure; diving on a swim team is similar to field events in track, you are on the same team as the runners and score points in meets the same way, but obviously have very different skill sets). Our swim team was pretty good but not the deepest in the world. I was a reasonable swimmer so my coach ended up putting me in a few of the relays to fill out the lanes. I was obviously not psyched about this as I signed up to be a diver...

I talked with my parents about it and believe it or not they had some good points. In diving you can be totally independent (club diving, etc.). However we couldn't afford to send me to a diving coach on a regular basis. So by competing on the schools team i was getting free access to pool time, coaching, insurance, regular competition, not to mention the team camaraderie etc. The only way for me to become a better diver was to stay on the schools team, so my payment was to do what the coach said to help out the team. Instead of scratching on the events or being an a**hole and purposely tanking the swimming events he put me in, I leaned into it. I started going to a few swim practices a week in addition to diving and believe if or not I got better at swimming (though never very good). In fact I was occasionally on the "A" relays and just missed out on making districts in a few individual events.

Did it hurt my diving? maybe a little (more tired at practice due to extra swim practices, less focus on diving during the meets). But i ended up way better than if I would have scratched the swimming event (because any self respecting coach would have kicked me off the team....and as i said we couldn't afford private coaching). In fact I got good enough to walk onto my college's diving team and was able to focus only on diving in college. It was only DIII but i did pretty well, ended up making nationals my senior year. I was never going to be elite even if I have the best of coaching/facilities in middle school/high school.

TL/DR: you are getting free coaching, track time, competitions and a team environment. The price you end up paying for that is to do some things you maybe don't want to help the team. If that's too steep then pony up the cash for private coaching and meets outside the typical high school structure.

HRE hit this one on the head.

Why should you run the 1600?

55 + 2:05 points to sub-4:40

If you ran 50-55 mpw during XC, you are sandbagging the 1600. You have very little future in the 400 but a lot of upside in the 800/1600. The consensus on the thread is you are in the wrong yet you continue to whine. Either take the good advice here and change your attitude, or continue to whine and settle for mediocrity. It's your choice at this point.

Didn't you say your older teammates don't care about running? So why does their opinion matter? If you truly want to be great at running, build versatility. 1600 builds much-needed strength for the 800. And all this other stuff about not being able to change the culture? Garbage. You don't know until you try and if you're not willing to, you're no better than your older teammates. Invite upcoming freshman on runs, show that you're willing to listen to the coaches, show that you're willing to try hard in those several events for the team. As a 4:26/9:43/15:50 myself, I'm constantly tripling at meets (ordinarily 4x8/16/32), on a team that's only qualified for the state championships twice in the last ten years, I'm nothing but happy to attempt to lead and change that. If you won't race for your teammates, why should they race for you and help you become successful? They shouldn't. Race for them, race to change the culture.

Your coach is not wrong. You are right that you are a better 800 guy than miler, but your coach sees that you will eventually score in the mile and help your team further than in the 800. Or maybe your coach thinks you could amount to something in xc.

Guess what, if you want to run in college you'll have even less choice in your events. It'll be like want to break 4? Too bad, you're our top distance guy and you could score more points in the 10,000. You wanted to win an event at conference? Na, if you triple you can score 12 points instead of 10.

This is why I liked xc. You race once and can put everything into it. Right now you are part of a team and need to listen to your coach, not your desire to run a sub 2 800. The best you can hope for is to double in the 800 and mile. Talk to your coach and apologize for being such a selfish ass and ask if you can double. Neither of these races is so long that you can't run near your best while doubling. Its not like the 5000/10,000 doubles and occassionally 5/10/15 triple (couldn't steeple worth a damn) I'd do in college.

Look for a post season open type all star meet where you can go run as an individual and hit your 800 pr.

I do not think your coach is wrong for making you run only the mile. I think you are being an entitled brat and not a good teammate. Suck it up, admit you were wrong and in a few meets you can double 8/15. Its good you are learning this lesson now. In college if you pulled a stunt like you did, you could lose your scholarship or maybe even find yourself cut. At some schools there are 10 club guys just a little slower than some of the scorers and travel athletes chomping at the bit for a walk on spot as they tear up the nirca circuit. Listen to your coach and later in life you can run any event you want. Be thankful we have organized athletics and you don't live in a third world country where the only track is in the capital.

Well obviously, like most people in an argument I want to be right. I just wanted to hear a solid answer about why I should have run the mile besides all this team culture stuff which we don’t have much of.[/quote]

Nothing wrong with wanting to be right, It's normal, as you say. But if you've hung out here for any length of time you know that there's rarely a huge consensus on most topics. But you've gotten one and it's that you are wrong here. I may misunderstand what you continue to write, but it seems like you still think you are not wrong despite nearly everyone saying that you are. This suggests that when you started the thread you really did not consider the possibility that you are wrong and that maybe there is nothing anyone could say that would convince you that you are. Am I misunderstanding you or is what nearly everyone is saying just bouncing off you? Can you actually conceive of the idea that you are wrong in this situation?

PS

I did not notice that you're a freshman when I wrote my first reply. When I saw that you are and that you ran a 4:57 mile as a freshman it told me that you have some real potential in the mile. It's not "The Next Drew Hunter" kind of potential, but if I'm coaching a mediocre high school team and I have a freshman running under 5:00 in his first mile race I'm thinking that in a year or two he can be under 4:40 and maybe scoring at our league meet. So yeah, I'm probably putting you kin the mile pretty frequently from here on. It's part of sports. Baseball is crawling with outfielders who want to play first base or shortstop.

You are in high school. You are at the infant stage of your career. You are versatile across several events. This is a strength not a weakness. Let you coach develop your versatility. If you stay flexible and coachable, colleges will snap you up in a heartbeat.

So you showed an apparent weakness of strength between 400 and 800 times at 55 and 2:11, then you ran a mile race...a more strength based event, then you went back down and had a big breakthrough at the 800...and you don't think it had anything to do with the new mile stimulus experience? You think you dropped 6s just from being 'fresh' from not running a mere 400m race earlier in the meet? And you simultaneously want to listen to your older teammates but also don't respect their view of running?

Listen to your coach.

too trolly... you guys shouldn't give a real answer.

You sound like a diva. The early season is for doing whatever event your coach says, you can start to "specialize" when it comes to regions and state. That's when you concentrate on running what even is best for YOU.

The OP is young and wants to run track. He wants to concentrate on shorter events. Good for him. He can always move up in distance.

Instead he has a coach that wants him to solely run distances he doesn’t want to run in order to score points in a worthless dual meet that nobody cares about. A coach’s job for athletes at his age should be totally focused on his development, not a team score for a team that isn’t any good anyway. Maybe run him in a mile in some other kind of meet. Don’t double. Let the kid run the 400 or the 800. This isn’t a kid that will do anything on the state level this year. Maybe next year or 2 years away if you bring them along the right way.

I've always hated the nature of team scoring that compels coaches to put their runners in events that don't maximize their potential. I understand it for relays, but hate it for points unless it's for a county or state championship and your team can win it. We try to make track too much of a team sport here, when it's really an individual sport.