New Shoes

I would like to talk about running shoes all night! First, let me say that I have over the years closely observed and made correct predictions about the market. The last 15 years have been about creating and jumping on trends, namely minimal and maximal and lower drop. I believe minimal and low drop are not healthy for most runners.

The last 5 years has been about novel midsole materials. This is great but it's still too early. I believe it will take at least another 10 years for manufacturers to get the tuning of these material right.

Out of all the brands I have actually tried on and/or seen in person over the last 15 years Mizuno is the best. Actually by far the best! This season they have a number of shoes out but one that gets me excited is the Wave Inspire 15 and to a less extend the Wave Horizon 3. Both these shoes are "support" shoes with the traditional (tried and tested) 12 mm drop and I believe would be appropriate for 90& of the runners out there.

The future: Manufacturers will develop shoes that promote good foot health with a fun running experience. This is what I want and I presume most runners want. Right? This I believe will happen in the next 15 to 20 years. In the meantime brands I would keep on eye on: Sketchers, Nike and of course Mizuno. I would also take a look at new entrants, particularly from outside the US.

I agree with your point on the trends of shoes, and also agree not on the fact that minimal/low drop shoes are bad for runners but that the benefits have been way overblown. Most people don't understand the biomechanical factors of running enough to put them in a shoe like an Altra and say go optimize your training. A 10 mm Nike allows more room for error albeit possibly more prone to error. We will have to disagree on shoes though. I ran in a singular pair of Mizunos a few years back, and immediately realized that they were shoes made for runners who may have previously tried running in Nike Air Monarchs.

My question remains though, what do you want to see and what do you expect to see? Simply stating that people will follow trends is not enough. Do you think that Ultraboosts and Hokas are here to stay and continue to dominate among hobby joggers, or do you think that running will continue down its current trend of nicheness with everyone finding some mediocre to above average shoe in each category?

What I would love to see is everyone create there own PEBAX and TPU shoes, put a knit upper on everything and make everything somewhere from 4-10 mm offsett with a max stack of 25-26 mm. Let the consumers decide who makes what the best. I however see Nike continually driving the quality shoe market and a lot of companies building 30-35 mm stacks with inferior EVA foams.

My biggest gripe is too many companies have too many shoes that fill too many unneeded gaps.

As I indicated I would like to see running shoes that are developed with foot health in mind and provides a fun running experience. I believe this is where ultimately the running shoe market is headed but it is going to take time for it to be the norm. I would say in 20 years this will happen.

The point of the new novel materials is to make a fun running experience. But these materials are so new and need to be refined. A nice bounce does not automatically mean the right bounce. I believe what many podiatrists believe - a health shoe, any shoe, is one that:

1. Is inflexible

2. Does not twist

3. Has a firm , thick midsole and strong protective outsole

4. Has a comfortable upper

5. Has decent cushioning and/or shock absorption

I completely agree that manufacturers have too many models. What I would like to see is a manufacturer just have 1 model! They should put all there resources into this model and let the shoe stay exactly the same for a decade or more because it's that good. I think the Brooks Addiction Walker is something like this. It hasn't changed in years. Some great quality, great for foot health and a comfortable walking experience.

I am excited for the New Balance Fuel Cell Rebel. Other than that, I agree: Reebok, Skechers, and Nike are the only companies releasing truly innovative stuff these days. The Forever Energy, Floatride Run Fast (and Pro), Razor 3 Hyper, and VF4% are light years ahead of anything else in the industry right now, with Saucony's Everrun and Adidas' Boost in the chase pack, and everyone else just going through the motions, at least as far as innovative midsoles.

I will add one exception: Newton has started putting a lightweight TPU in the midsole of their Distance (and Gravity, I assume) for a couple of models now as well.

theJeff wrote:

I am excited for the New Balance Fuel Cell Rebel.

I will add one exception: Newton has started putting a lightweight TPU in the midsole of their Distance (and Gravity, I assume) for a couple of models now as well.

I too am excited to see what the Rebel brings. It will be another attempt by New Balance to use TPU. There previous attempts have been underwhelming, but I will say the impulse was snappy but the upper just didn't do it.

Newton is using the same design as the Kinvara with a thin layer of TPU on top of an EVA midsole. I did not include them in my discussion as most people either love or hate them, and they use technology that is singular and probably will never be duplicated. I happen to fall in the love category, but highly recommend them to anyone. Again though, I don't see them putting PEBAX or TPU into their shoes completely and don't know that they need to.

I see that you are a fellow believer :-)

You will find this thread interesting. We still update it periodically.

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=8460083

I have not tried any of the ones you mentioned. It all looks very interesting. If the past is any indication of the future many of the new "revolutionary" materials though will be mostly all hype.

The real issue is foot and body health. Manufacturers need to put focus on this aspect of shoes. Once they do and combined it with a joyous running experience and an attractive look then everyone will benefit.

I tried on a Puma something-or-other at Famous Footwear the other day, and I could swear the midsole was Boost.

theJeff wrote:

I am excited for the New Balance Fuel Cell Rebel. Other than that, I agree: Reebok, Skechers, and Nike are the only companies releasing truly innovative stuff these days. The Forever Energy, Floatride Run Fast (and Pro), Razor 3 Hyper, and VF4% are light years ahead of anything else in the industry right now, with Saucony's Everrun and Adidas' Boost in the chase pack, and everyone else just going through the motions, at least as far as innovative midsoles.

I will add one exception: Newton has started putting a lightweight TPU in the midsole of their Distance (and Gravity, I assume) for a couple of models now as well.

What is your opinion on NB? I know you said a lot of nice things about their Beacon.

ScriptedConnection wrote:

theJeff wrote:

I am excited for the New Balance Fuel Cell Rebel. Other than that, I agree: Reebok, Skechers, and Nike are the only companies releasing truly innovative stuff these days. The Forever Energy, Floatride Run Fast (and Pro), Razor 3 Hyper, and VF4% are light years ahead of anything else in the industry right now, with Saucony's Everrun and Adidas' Boost in the chase pack, and everyone else just going through the motions, at least as far as innovative midsoles.

I will add one exception: Newton has started putting a lightweight TPU in the midsole of their Distance (and Gravity, I assume) for a couple of models now as well.

What is your opinion on NB? I know you said a lot of nice things about their Beacon.

Actually, very few NB work for me. The Zante 4 was unrunably harsh and narrow. I have had bad luck with fit issues: mediums too narrow, wides too wide. The Beacon was an anomaly for me - just an incredible shoe at a wide variety of paces. I am about to review the Gobi 3 (I had to return the initial 14 because it was just too narrow), so we will see. I have also heard mostly great things about the 890v7, with a few detractors, but I haven't personally tried it, and I have almost zero experience with their "numbered" shoes. Lastly, keep an eye out for the PRJ5280 racing flat. I am hoping this will be awesome.

tarckstar wrote:

I tried on a Puma something-or-other at Famous Footwear the other day, and I could swear the midsole was Boost.

Ya, the Ignite stuff is boost. There was actually a pretty big legal battle btwn Adidas and Puma over it. Puma won the right to keep using it, and they have responded by offering crappy athleisure shoes.

I really enjoyed the brooks levitate. They felt super responsive. So I guess I'm excited for the third edition of the levitate?

ScriptedConnection wrote:

What is your opinion on NB? I know you said a lot of nice things about their Beacon.

Personally, I think it is a top 3 shoe of last year. It definitely wasn't perfect but the midsole was by far the best I ran in on roads.

theJeff wrote:

Actually, very few NB work for me. The Zante 4 was unrunably harsh and narrow. I have had bad luck with fit issues: mediums too narrow, wides too wide. The Beacon was an anomaly for me - just an incredible shoe at a wide variety of paces. I am about to review the Gobi 3 (I had to return the initial 14 because it was just too narrow), so we will see. I have also heard mostly great things about the 890v7, with a few detractors, but I haven't personally tried it, and I have almost zero experience with their "numbered" shoes. Lastly, keep an eye out for the PRJ5280 racing flat. I am hoping this will be awesome.

The problem was NB took the Zante in the wrong direction because they had the 1080. The first Zante was pretty close to the Beacon and then the shoe got progressively harder and less comfortable. The 1080 is too cush and the Zante is too hard. They have a lot of good shoes, but they could use a reboot of their lines

Just asked Running Warehouse about the PRJ 5280 looking for some information about a release date or even if they are planning to release it to the public and the rep said sometime this fall which is promising my guess is August or September. Couldn't get any info about stack or weight though really hoping it's in the 3-4 oz range. It seems to have the same last and upper as the MD800 v6 spike which weights 4.2 oz so should be similar.