Sondre Moen happy to be healthy, looking for 2nd fastest half marathon ever on Sunday

Renato Canova wrote:

One question : are you interested to have all the data about all the tests before the Asian Championships ?

If you give me some e-mail address, I can send you everything also now, so you can control personally all the data of the athletes (including Su Guoxiang), and finish to make me tired about your accusations.

If you want to post more data do it here. I mean that doesn't seem to be working out for you as a strategy, but at least it is public.

I've got all your data already.

Are you sticking by your assertion that these results were for Su Guoxiang? And he has a T level in the 20s? It's a clear yes or not.

The level of Testosterone in all his other tests was in a range between 38 and 58, clearly a level of 24 was not correct.

On the other side, I saw many values of Testosterone that personally didn't consider correct.

The tests were in two different lab : one for the blood values, another for the hormonal values. I didn't give too much importance to the hormonal values, because in several cases were non connected with the blood value, and with I could see in training. We tried also to control the level of Cortisol, but after one test only I decided that was useless, since I didn't understand the system of the machine, and the final values.

But, about the "classic" blood values, I think the lab could work well, when not too much busy, because in Duoba there were about 500 athletes of different disciplines, and sometimes the lab had to control too many samples (and I'm sure something wrong there was, in other sport too).

Renato, by control, I think you mean test or check. If you use that verbiage it will be clear that you don't mean "have power over," but rather find out what they are.

Renato Canova wrote:

The level of Testosterone in all his other tests was in a range between 38 and 58, clearly a level of 24 was not correct.

.

I hope you had him hospitalized. Those are not numbers you would see in a healthy adult male.

Hi Renato, can you share some training weeks of Moen leading up to this race and how he was able to bounce back from 4 months of no running to this level of fitness after 3 months of running? What time do you think he can run at the moment in a flatter course and faster competition?

Thanks so much.

Danmiguel88 wrote:

What time do you think he can run at the moment in a flatter course and faster competition?

Thanks so much.

Based on this last half, I think he could go 59:30-59:50. We'll find out in a couple of weeks!

Renato,

It appears he finished in 8th place at the Asian games: Su Guoxiong (CHN), 2:20:11.

That is a pretty amazing finish for a male with a T no higher than 60 and lows of 24-38. Those are well within the reference range for women but not at all consistent with a healthy male athlete. Even acknowledging that distance runners tend towards low T (but nowhere near that low). That level is usually seen in men who are undergoing chemotherapy or suffering extreme testicular cancer. At that level a man would be experiencing extreme fatigue, gynocomastia, severe anemia, hair loss. Without immediate treatment he would have been at risk of developing osteoperosis as bone mass will be plummeting.

I think in China they use a different type of machine for determining the hormonal values. It's because I was not able to connect those results with what I knew, that I didn't care about the results or the second lab (including cortisol).

I remember that in 1999, during a training camp in Eldoret organized by IAAF (lasting 3 weeks), carried out in the IOC Center, the Farm of Kipchoge Keino (I was the IAAF lecturer in that occasion), regarding 19 African Countries that had to send 2 youth boys + 2 youth girls + 2 coaches, I asked IAAF to have a small budget for making a blood check-up at the end of the period. I was curious to see the values of African athletes in altitude, since already I had more than 500 data of Kenyans and Tanzanians staying in Italy for 1-2 months for competing (tests carried out with the University of Torino).

I was really surprised to see values of Hb for the most part of young athletes very low (all under 10, the lowest around 8).

At the end, I asked to be tested myself (I was normally about 14-14.5) and the result was 9.2.

So, I discovered they used a different system, that I was not able to understand and to put in connection with the data I already had.

Well, I have a pretty extensive amount of results of testosterone from your female athletes. Those are all very consistent with being measured in ng/dl. (nanograms/deciliter). This is the most common way of measuring testosterone throughout the world. That is pretty much the only measurement that makes sense. There are other ways to measure testosterone. IAAF (in their reports regarding Caster) used nmol/l, but this is just a mathematical conversion and would not give values in that range. The majority of these female athletes have T measurements within the reference range, but there are quite a number with quite elevated T levels. I have no idea why you would not be able to make sense of the cortisol values. Those are absolutely measured in micrograms/deciliter, which is the standard way to measure it. All of those results are in the normal reference range, especially if they were sampled in the morning. The urea also uses the standard reference measurement. (mg/dL). Those are just a little low overall but that would not be unusual for endurance athletes in heavy training. The CK test also uses the standard reference measurements (u/L). A lot of these values are high, but again that is pretty normal for endurance athletes in heavy training. So in EVERY TEST the range of results reported is consistent with the most common measurement system in the world. Regardless of the units of measurement (meaning even if we accepted your completely implausible story that these testosterone measurements are reported in some other format), the key point is this: The T level of a healthy young adult male does not ever overlap with the T level of females. You have a large number of female athletes with T levels higher than that of Su. This is complete nonsense.

Renato Canova wrote:

I think in China they use a different type of machine for determining the hormonal values. It's because I was not able to connect those results with what I knew, that I didn't care about the results or the second lab (including cortisol).