Talent vs hard work for decent hobby jogger times? Proof it!

BLtheKid wrote:

100m guy wrote:

The 75% figure also sounds right for the sprints. Average guy in HS tries the 100 and 200 in his late 20s and ends up with a wind legal, electronic time of 12.15 and 25.09 after 2 years:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=8100711

75% for the marathon would be about 2:42. No way would I ever believe someone running faster than that has no talent. I think 75% is the ceiling and if anything it might be a little lower by a percent or two...

Agreed. The longer the distance, the lower the percentage.

100-200: 76-78%

Mile- 5K: 74-75%

HM-Marathon: 72-73%

BLtheKid wrote:

Jabb wrote:

You have to be Physically STRONG to run 75% of what the best in the world can run.

Hopeless people with no talent would be closer to 60% age grade fully trained.

We're talking an average able-bodied male, right? 60% would mean a runner doing 40-50 miles per week (and doing workouts) in his prime would only be able to run a 21:00 5K.

But a 21:00 5k is pretty damn good. When I was capable of 21 minute 5ks I felt like I was in excellent shape.

To be honest wrote:

BLtheKid wrote:

We're talking an average able-bodied male, right? 60% would mean a runner doing 40-50 miles per week (and doing workouts) in his prime would only be able to run a 21:00 5K.

But a 21:00 5k is pretty damn good. When I was capable of 21 minute 5ks I felt like I was in excellent shape.

Male or female?

How old were you at the time?

How much training did you do to get there, and for how many years?

Was the 5K your best event?

Hermaphrodite, 96 years old, 300 mpw, and yes

Started running at age 18. After 1 year ran the 5k in 24min

Progression

Age 19, 23:54, 10mpw

Age 20, 20:20, 15mpw

Age 21: 19:25, 15mpw

Age 22: 19:10, 20mpw

Age 23: 18:45, 25mpw

Age 24: 18:20, 30mpw

Age 25: 18:00, 35mpw

Age 26: 17:20, 50mpw

I never thought I will break 20mins in 5k

Now I am trying for sub 17 5k

0 talent guy wrote:

Started running at age 18. After 1 year ran the 5k in 24min

Progression

Age 19, 23:54, 10mpw

Age 20, 20:20, 15mpw

Age 21: 19:25, 15mpw

Age 22: 19:10, 20mpw

Age 23: 18:45, 25mpw

Age 24: 18:20, 30mpw

Age 25: 18:00, 35mpw

Age 26: 17:20, 50mpw

I never thought I will break 20mins in 5k

Now I am trying for sub 17 5k

I believe that most people can go a long way on good training, but pronouncing your real level and listing an average progression is not evidence.

0 talent guy wrote:

Started running at age 18. After 1 year ran the 5k in 24min

Progression

Age 19, 23:54, 10mpw

Age 20, 20:20, 15mpw

Age 21: 19:25, 15mpw

Age 22: 19:10, 20mpw

Age 23: 18:45, 25mpw

Age 24: 18:20, 30mpw

Age 25: 18:00, 35mpw

Age 26: 17:20, 50mpw

I never thought I will break 20mins in 5k

Now I am trying for sub 17 5k

I believe that most people can go a long way on good training, but pronouncing your *talent* level and listing an average progression is not evidence.

I started running at 22 and ended up running 14:30 3 years later. I guess running is all about how much talent you have. Most other sports require many years of practice in order to be very good.

Confused guy wrote:

I started running at 22 and ended up running 14:30 3 years later. I guess running is all about how much talent you have. Most other sports require many years of practice in order to be very good.

Where did you start and did you have an exercise background before this journey, or were you sedentary?

I played baseball. I ran a race at 22 because some guys at work were running in a 10k. I ran 34 minutes but was super sore for several days after it. I ran 14:30 about 3 years later in about 45MPW.

The important thing is to not give up! Just keep trying and the work will eventually pay off. I didn’t know how to train properly until just last year, while also having dealt with some non-running injuries for many months. Within 6 months of consistent training, I hit PRs at every distance from the mile to 10km (off 10k training).

I don’t just run just because I love it, but also because I want to achieve my unrealised potential.

All this chat about 'talent' is a bit pointless. When I first started running, the best runner at my school was a football (soccer) player. I remember how unjust it felt that he wasn't even "a runner" and yet he was so much better than me. In my first track season I was running with my coach and he complimented me on the jump in form I had had in the last months, to which I responded with something pathetic like "well, imagine if (insert the really good soccer player's name here) trained like I do. He would run much faster".

The response I received was: "Well he isn't training like you, is he?"

A very simple, very effective answer to my moaning.

0 talent guy wrote:

Started running at age 18. After 1 year ran the 5k in 24min

Progression

Age 19, 23:54, 10mpw

Age 20, 20:20, 15mpw

Age 21: 19:25, 15mpw

Age 22: 19:10, 20mpw

Age 23: 18:45, 25mpw

Age 24: 18:20, 30mpw

Age 25: 18:00, 35mpw

Age 26: 17:20, 50mpw

I never thought I will break 20mins in 5k

Now I am trying for sub 17 5k

I have been stuck at 19:30 for 6 years, THAT is no talent

typical speculation on Letsrun wrote:

5-7 years?! What if a talented runner trained perfectly for 5-7 years?

Take all the runners in your study and have them race a 5k on NO training. Then give them all 5-7 years of training and see what happens. All you'll find is that there is baseline talent and 5-7 years of training will advance them proportionally. The guys who start at 18:00 will get down to 15:30-16:00 and the guys who start at 16:45 will get down into the 14:00's

Have you even been on a team for many years or trained with the same group of runners for many years? The opposite is usually true.

The guys who couldn't even jog a 5K at a 9 min/mile pace on their first attempts are usually the ones who improve the most. The guys who run a 17 flat 5K within their first few weeks of running usually have problems with injuries and burnout and rarely improve much.

I think hard work and consistensy trumps talent for hobby joggers.

I'm 2.5 years into running - do mostly ultras - and I recently cracked 15:XX in the 5KM.

There are no secrets... but the keys for me were (1) running every day (2) doing speed work one a week (3) doing plenty of volume with lots of hills and (4) getting 8-9 hours of sleep per night

I think sometimes people make running way too complicated. If you do the 4 things above, I guarantee you'll see great results.

It sounds silly... but I think one area where a lot of folks fall short is sleep. If you have a new born kid and you get 4 hours of sleep a night, perhaps its time to put running on the backburner and not stress about about hitting that new PR. You really need to get lots of sleep in order to recover well from workouts and to be energized for the next day's session

Jack bz wrote:

0 talent guy wrote:

Started running at age 18. After 1 year ran the 5k in 24min

Progression

Age 19, 23:54, 10mpw

Age 20, 20:20, 15mpw

Age 21: 19:25, 15mpw

Age 22: 19:10, 20mpw

Age 23: 18:45, 25mpw

Age 24: 18:20, 30mpw

Age 25: 18:00, 35mpw

Age 26: 17:20, 50mpw

I never thought I will break 20mins in 5k

Now I am trying for sub 17 5k

I have been stuck at 19:30 for 6 years, THAT is no talent

Age 17 34:00

Age 18 30:00

Age 19 28:30

Age 20 26:15

Age 21 24:30

Age 22 23:00

Age 23 22:20

Age 24 21:45

Consistant 30 mile weeks for five years plus track work. Do Iwin the no talent contest? Where’s my medal? ?

Just Another LRC Idiot wrote:

OP's training history and PB progression are more interesting data. How has he done, and how much has he improved?

I'm neither a 5K guy nor the OP, but here you go:

Best event: 800

Background: Was somewhat active as a kid but didn't do any organized sports. The only race I remember doing before middle school was a ~700m race that consisted of two loops around a ~350m flat course in either 2nd or 3rd grade. For some strange reason, I remember my splits. First 350 - 2:05, Second 350 - 2:30, Final time - 4:35. Everyone in the class had to run this, and I finished a bit behind mid-pack.

Age 12: Ran my first 800, did 3:2x off of 0 MPW

Age 13: 2:56, 5 MPW

Age 14: 2:30, 15 MPW. First year joining the XC and track team.

Age 15: 2:21, 20 MPW

Age 16: 2:17, 25-30 MPW

Age 17: Injured, didn't get any PRs. Ran a 2:20 pre-injury, but had the flu at that time.

Age 18: 2:15, 30 MPW

Age 19: 2:11, 35-40 MPW. Also got an altitude tent.

Age 20: Injured, didn't get any PRs

Age 21: Not injured, but didn't get any PRs. Best time was 2:12 off of 50 MPW.

Age 22: Not injured, but didn't get any PRs. Best time was 2:12 (again) off of 50-55 MPW.

Age 23: 2:10, 40 MPW. Dropped the mileage and found that 40 MPW was my sweet spot.

Age 24: 2:10, 40 MPW (again)

Age 25: 2:09.5, 40 MPW. Overall mileage was held constant, but I experimented with things like adding in and removing speed days, adjusting tapers and workout frequency, incorporating hill workouts of varying inclines, and getting my 400 and 600 times down.

Age 26: Not injured, but didn't get any PRs. Best time was 2:10 off of 40 MPW.

Age 27: Injured, didn't get any PRs

Age 28: 2:09.1, 40 MPW. Started hitting the weight room more often (2x a week vs. 1x a week before)

Age 29: 2:07.9. Ran this on a Mondo track with ideal weather conditions, so this might be as fast as I'm ever going to get.

Age 30+: ???

I think most people can get down to the 2:05-2:10 range if the 800 is their best event, if they start before they graduate from HS, and if they train consistently for at least a decade.