why americans suck at distance running

what is ethiopia and kenya doing right? wrote:

Just ask yourself, what is Ethiopia and Kenya doing right? We just need to do that.

Become a third world country and live in abject poverty?

Cotton Shirt is right in that we are basically done with Track & Field at age 22.

In fact without luck the majority is done at age 18.

There are countries where it is easier to have Track & Field as a career.

We should allow people to join the U.S. Army and live on a regular salary such

as a social worker rather than live on abject poverty. Prefontaine pushed

a similar montra in the 1970s.

Footlocker and NXN is hurting US distance running. Get rid of it.

Let kids be kids.

what is ethiopia and kenya doing right? wrote:

Just ask yourself, what is Ethiopia and Kenya doing right? We just need to do that.

We need to make running fast the only way to escape brutal poverty for the majority of our population?

Bill Rodgers and Frank Shorter temporarily killed distance running in the USA. It all happened when money started to trickle into the top elites.

I'm quoting some of the relevant portions of your initial post that I wish to respond to:

This must be geography-dependent, but I live in the SF Bay Area and here this is objectively false. There is a thriving (IMO) club scene here. Look up "PAUSATF". There is a cross country season, a road series with races from 1 mile to the marathon, and a number of local track and field meets (a number of all-comers meets plus a club championship meet, I believe). (I admit that the field event athletes are probably screwed, but this is letsrun not letspolevault so I think I'm safe here). The cross country races cost $20, which is reasonable in this day of hobby jogger excess. It's true that these could be better advertised and organized and more plentiful, but you only have about 300 locals under the age of 40 (and another 300ish over the age of 40) who are seriously interested in racing frequently so there's only so much of a market.

I'm told that Boston and NYC have thriving club scenes. I don't know why the top runners are so much slower now than they used to be, but lack of an outlet doesn't seem to be a good answer to me.

How many of those guys in the 80s had sponsorships?? I thought we were talking about amateur clubs, but now you're talking about professionalism. Obviously the biggest difference between today and 40-50 years ago is that there's a bigger gap between amateur and pro. National class is further from world class than it used to be as well. So random amateurs are disincentivized from running top times.

Here's the real question: You correctly identify the NCAA as the primary funnel of distance running talent in the US. There have got to be 50 or so guys who graduate from college every year who are national-class distance runners. What happens to them? Some of them (maybe the top 3?) go pro. The rest train on club teams (rarely), or they just get real jobs and stop running (more commonly). If they all continued competing we'd have hundreds of guys running world class times. In 2014 there were like 50 guys who ran a 4-minute mile or equivalent:

(I couldn't find better lists but they must be out there). That's crazy! I wonder how many of those guys are still running?

It actually might be worthwhile to set up a system to track these guys and see how they're doing, just to see where the pipeline ends. Maybe a database of former D1 athletes (maybe just the all-Americans or the ones who made it to Nationals) with their post-collegiate running endeavors?

what were they doing right in the 1980s? About half of our sub 2:11 marathon times come from the 80s. Just look at the courses they ran on:

RANK MARK COMPETITOR DOB NAT POS VENUE DATE

1 2:04:58 Ryan HALL 14 OCT 1982 USA USA 4 Boston, MA (USA) 18 APR 2011

2 2:05:38 Khalid KHANNOUCHI 22 DEC 1971 USA USA 1 London (GBR) 14 APR 2002

3 2:06:07 Galen RUPP 08 MAY 1986 USA USA 1 Praha (CZE) 06 MAY 2018

4 2:07:47 Dathan RITZENHEIN 30 DEC 1982 USA USA 9 Chicago, IL (USA) 07 OCT 2012

5 2:08:10 Mbarak HUSSEIN 04 APR 1965 USA USA 3 Seoul (KOR) 14 MAR 2004

6 2:08:37 Mebrahtom KEFLEZIGHI 05 MAY 1975 USA USA 1 Boston, MA (USA) 21 APR 2014

7 2:08:47 Bob KEMPAINEN 18 JUN 1966 USA USA 7 Boston, MA (USA) 18 APR 1994

8 2:08:51 Alberto SALAZAR 07 AUG 1958 USA USA 1 Boston, MA (USA) 19 APR 1982

9 2:08:53 Dick BEARDSLEY 21 MAR 1956 USA USA 2 Boston, MA (USA) 19 APR 1982

10 2:08:56 Abdi ABDIRAHMAN 02 DEC 1978 USA USA 4 Chicago, IL (USA) 22 OCT 2006

11 2:09:01 Greg MEYER 18 SEP 1955 USA USA 1 Boston, MA (USA) 18 APR 1983

12 2:09:27 Bill RODGERS 23 DEC 1947 USA USA 1 Boston, MA (USA) 16 APR 1979

13 2:09:32 Ron TABB 07 AUG 1954 USA USA 2 Boston, MA (USA) 18 APR 1983

13 2:09:32 David MORRIS 17 MAY 1970 USA USA 4 Chicago, IL (USA) 24 OCT 1999

15 2:09:35 Jerry LAWSON 02 JUL 1966 USA USA 7 Chicago, IL (USA) 19 OCT 1997

16 2:09:38 Ken MARTIN 10 SEP 1958 USA USA 2 New York, NY (USA) 05 NOV 1989

17 2:09:41 Alan CULPEPPER 15 SEP 1972 USA USA 6 Chicago, IL (USA) 13 OCT 2002

18 2:09:57 Benji DURDEN 28 AUG 1951 USA USA 3 Boston, MA (USA) 18 APR 1983

19 2:10:04 Patrick PETERSEN 03 DEC 1959 USA USA 7 London (GBR) 23 APR 1989

20 2:10:05 Phil COPPESS 02 SEP 1954 USA USA 1 St. Paul (USA) 06 OCT 1985

21 2:10:06 Ed MENDOZA 04 DEC 1952 USA USA 4 Boston, MA (USA) 18 APR 1983

22 2:10:15 Jeff WELLS 25 MAY 1954 USA USA 2 Boston, MA (USA) 17 APR 1978

23 2:10:19 Tony SANDOVAL 19 MAY 1954 USA USA 1 Niagara Falls, NY (USA) 24 MAY 1980

24 2:10:20 Garry BJORKLUND 22 APR 1951 USA USA 1 Duluth, MN (USA) 21 JUN 1980

25 2:10:24 Luke PUSKEDRA 08 FEB 1990 USA USA 5 Chicago, IL (USA) 11 OCT 2015

26 2:10:26 Craig VIRGIN 02 AUG 1955 USA USA 2 Boston, MA (USA) 20 APR 1981

27 2:10:29 Kirk PFEFFER 20 JUL 1956 USA USA 7 Fukuoka (JPN) 07 DEC 1980

28 2:10:30 Frank SHORTER 31 OCT 1947 USA USA 1 Fukuoka (JPN) 03 DEC 1972

29 2:10:36 Brett GOTCHER 01 SEP 1984 USA USA 7 Houston, TX (USA) 17 JAN 2010

30 2:10:41 Bill DONAKOWSKI 21 JUN 1956 USA USA 1 St. Paul (USA) 12 OCT 1986

31 2:10:47 Brian SELL 11 APR 1979 USA USA 6 Chicago, IL (USA) 22 OCT 2006

32 2:10:51 John TUTTLE 16 OCT 1958 USA USA 4 New York, NY (USA) 23 OCT 1983

33 2:10:52 Jeffrey EGGLESTON 01 OCT 1984 USA USA 2 Gold Coast (AUS) 06 JUL 2014

34 2:10:54 John LODWICK 16 MAR 1954 USA USA 3 Eugene, OR (USA) 09 SEP 1979

35 2:10:55 Kyle HEFFNER 12 SEP 1954 USA USA 3 Niagara Falls, NY (USA) 24 MAY 1980

36 2:10:57 Ryan VAIL 19 MAR 1986 USA USA 10 London (GBR) 13 APR 2014

37 2:10:59 Robert HODGE 03 AUG 1955 USA USA 2 Eugene, OR (USA) 07 SEP 1980

37 2:10:59 Marty FROELICK 12 MAR 1958 USA USA 1 St. Paul (USA) 11 OCT 1987

37 2:10:59 Ed EYESTONE 15 JUN 1961 USA USA 5 Chicago, IL (USA) 28 OCT 1990

A few things. Americans stopped running Fukuoka, often running the slower NYC marathon. And than most of the US marathoners run Boston in the spring. If most of the US marathoners run on slow courses, no wonder why we have so few sub 2:09 runners. Another thing, is the idea one can only run 2 marathons at most is a mental cap they give themselves. Most can probably race 4-6 times a year, this will increase the chances of getting a home run. The more times you swing, each swing increases your chances of a home run.

TLDR wrote:

TLDR

Way too long. Did anyone actually read all that gibberish?

Yep. wrote:

TLDR wrote:

TLDR

Way too long. Did anyone actually read all that gibberish?

I did.

If I am correct you are from the UK. The best thing anyone in your country has done for running in the last decade is to start "parkrun".

We don't suck. We're on pretty even playing fields with the rest of the world after the Kenyans an Ethiopians. The Japanese may be better at the marathon but I think we are stronger at the half and under. I think Americans are just used to seeing and thinking Americans are the absolute best athletes in the world since we got the NFL, MLB and NBA. All sports/leagues we invented.

CoachB wrote:

Competitive venues do exist outside of HS/College. It's just that many people choose not to partake. We just had Club XC nationals. In a couple of months, we'll have nationals for individuals (Yes, this seems to be a strange concept to me too. The footlocker/NXN debate is pre-dated by decades by the USATF). Few of our best athletes choose to do these events.

At least in my area, there are plenty of competitive clubs and a vibrant circuit for cross country and track and field events (the track meets are very distance heavy around here). There are at least 2 well attended series of all comer track meets as well.

Getting guys under 2:12 is a separate issue entirely than opportunities to compete outside of the HS/Collegiate system.

Good for your town, but where I live there is practically no all comer track meets. Every couple of years an attempt is made, in the middle of summer at the wrong time of day... It's about an hour and a half to the nearest semi regular city which has some meets. I was a 4/8/15 type of guy. I did run a season of JC track and would of been happy to have a go at it at the next level, but wait, wait... almost but not quite team material, and there was no school club for average Joe's and Jane's. There was a "club" in town though, for sub elite's and better. Seriously how many dudes in their early 20's are capable of coaching themselves, stay extremely motivated, have regular track access and have regular meets they can go. As you get older and move around it get even harder. So like many I run, do some 5's, since it's better that nothing, but if there was an outlet to run/race the 1500/mile, REGULARLY I'd pursue that. I agree with pretty much everything cottenshirt said and I'll add that even more people are out of the fitness pool because of the incessant promotion "cocooning" and consuming media.

Sounds about right.

Yep. wrote:

TLDR wrote:

TLDR

Way too long. Did anyone actually read all that gibberish?

Some did, because they can.

clearly it is geography dependent. in the UK there are 1400 athletic clubs up and down the country so that no one lives more than 20 miles from a club with it's own track, coach, and a series of league and all-comer meets. there are local leagues covering no more than, say, a county. there are area leagues covering the whole of, say, southern England, and there is a National League involving clubs from right across the country. you say that where you live there are, "300 locals under the age of 40," in your local area. those 300 folk do not "objectively" disprove my point that you do not have a thriving club scene across the whole of the United States where adults can continue their track and field career post college.

I was referring to the country as a whole, not just some tiny little corner of northern California. if you are able to show that there is just such a league in 30 different states you might have a point. but there is, objectively, nowhere for adults to pursue their track and field career post-college in over 99.9% of the country (road racing and x-country do not count. they must be able to pursue regular track racing at a range of distances from 1500m up to 10,000m).

yeah, I know, that old point 1, point 2 thing can get confusing sometimes, which is why I specifically numbered them, and put them in bold, so that folk with limited reading comprehension skills wouldn't get confused. obviously I should have tried harder.

you very nearly got the point here. ask yourself these three questions:

1. when was the heyday of American distance running?

2. when did the decline in standards start?

3. when did shoe companies start sponsoring athletes?

now, do you seriously think it's a coincidence that the answer to questions two and three is the same?

now ask yourself this:

why is it that the world record for 400m was held by an American athlete (or shared between an American and a German) continuously from March 1955 to August 2016, that's over 60 years, but no American has ever held the world record for 5000m or 10,000m (although Billy Mills and Gerry Lindgren did jointly hold the world record for 6 miles for 2 weeks in 1965)? (note: when considering this question you need to review the table I put in my original post about the age at which folk medal).

your answer to the questions about declining standards and your answer to the question about the disparity between 400m and 5000m WR should lead you to conclude that commercial sponsorship does not help improve national standards. it might help an individual athlete by keeping him from being a homeless dude, but it does not help nationally for talent spotting to be done by commercial enterprises with their own agenda and priorities.

there is nothing wrong with having commercial sponsorship. what is wrong is relying on this to identify and promote your national level talent. why are USATF not sponsoring athletes. what do they do with all their money, anyway? why is the federal government putting $32 million into sponsoring a professional cycling team but precisely nothing into a professional running team?

good question. these are the guys who can't pursue their career because there is that one tiny spot in northern California with a club scene, and, I know you're going to find this hard to believe, but not everyone wants to live in northern California (and the country would overbalance into the Pacific Ocean if they did).

precisely. that's why you need a club scene. across the whole country.

in 2014, 57 American men ran a sub-4 mile. between them they went sub-4 97 times in the year. Garrett Heath was the most prolific with 6, Jack Bolas ran 5, Patrick Casey, Kyle Merber and Leonel Manzano all ran 4 each.

you already know where the pipeline ends. it ends when they leave college and have nowhere to go but straight into an office where they spend the next thirty years tinkering with Excel spreadsheets for small change to pay the bills.

merry christmas. (and Happy Birthday to Basil Heatley, WR for the marathon in 1964).

Americans don’t suck at distance running. American men besides for Rupp suck at running. The women are more competitive than ever. Hasay podiums at multiple WMM. Cragg podiums at a WMM. Flanagan and Linden are champions, 2nd place, and Flanagan is also a 3rd place finisher at WMM. Cragg podiumed at IAAF marathon championships. Huddle is new to the scene with a 4th at NYC. I wouldn’t say that American women suck at all. If anything, they are one of the most dominant, competitive with Kenya and Ethiopia.

for those of you who have not yet figured this out for yourselves, even after I gave you all the information you needed, I will explain the whole thing in some detail.

1. we divide the characteristics required to succeed at a running event into two types. the first are natural characteristics, the things you get from your parents, your genetics and so forth. the second type are the characteristics you acquire through training. we don't have to list these characteristics individually or identify them, specifically, all we need to know is that you are born with some, and you acquire some from your training. that is, after all, why you go training, to acquire those characteristics.

2. the table included in my first post showing the average age at which athletes earn their first medal in international competition (copied below) shows that it takes, on average, two years longer to become a world class 10,000m runner than it does to become a world class 400m runner.

event / mean / values

400m 23.44 (n = 177, sd = 1.84)

800m 23.78 (n = 166, sd = 2.33)

1500m 24.42 (n = 153, sd = 2.23)

5000m 25.01 (n = 116, sd = 2.73)

10,000m 25.83 (n = 145, sd = 3.02)

there is other evidence to support this idea. for example, the average age at which US 400m runners break records; national records, world records, Olympic records and so forth, the average age for US 400m runners is 23.91 years. for 800m it is 24.74 years and for 10,000m runners it is 25.55 years. full list below.

average age of United States record breakers

event / code / years

400m USA 23.91

800m USA 24.74

1500m USA 24.14

5000m USA 25.96

10,000m USA 25.55

the average age at which US 400m runners become their national champion is 23.52 years. for 800m it is 24.89 years and for 10,000m runners it is 26.92 years. full list below.

average age of United States champions (outdoors)

event / code / years

400m USA 23.52

800m USA 24.89

1500m USA 24.38

5000m USA 27.20

10,000m USA 26.92

the unmistakable conclusion to be drawn from all this is that it takes two years longer to become a world class 10,000m runner than it does to become a world class 400m runner. and this is because the shorter events rely more on natural characteristics than on acquired characteristics, and the longer events rely more on acquired characteristics. you have to train for two more years to become a 10,000m runner because that's how long, on average, it takes to acquire those characteristics.

3. why did Americans hold the world record for 400m for 60 years, and why have the United States won 20 out of 28 Olympic gold medals at the 400m, whilst during the same time frame no American has broken the world record for 5000m or 10,000m (although, admittedly, Billy Mills and Gerry Lindgren shared the world record for 6 miles for 2 weeks in 1965)? clearly, four years of college is exactly the right time frame in which to acquire the characteristics required to become a world class 400m runner. Charles Reidpath, four years of college, world record and Olympic gold medal. William Carr, four years of college, world record and Olympic gold medal. Archie Williams, four years of college, world record and Olympic gold medal. Otis Davis, four years of college, world record and Olympic gold medal. Mike Larrabee, four years of college, world record and Olympic gold medal. Lee Evans, four years of college, world record and Olympic gold medal. Michael Johnson, four years of college, world record and Olympic gold medal. it is not an accident that this happens. it happens precisely because the time frame in which athletes are allowed to develop characteristics matches exactly the requirement for their event.

however, after four years of college, 5000m and 10,000m runners still need a further two years of training to acquire the characteristics they need to become world class at their event. for these guys, after four years of college, one of two things happens. 1) they give up athletics because there is no further opportunity for training and racing at their event. 2) they go pro, and very quickly switch from the 5000m and 10,000m to the marathon, because that's where the money is. but their marathon performance is limited by the fact that they have not yet acquired the full range of characteristics required to become a world class 10,000m runner. the limiting factor is not the training they do for the marathon, it is the training they have not yet done for the 10,000m.

if a guy wants to run 4 minutes for the mile he self evidently needs to be able to run 60 seconds for each lap. the same principle applies to the longer distances. the faster guys at the shorter distances will, on average, tend to be faster at the longer distances. at this point a lot of folk point to pr's and they say that runner A has only run x for 10,000m but he did y for the marathon, and this completely misses the point. it is not the pr you have that matters, it is the training that you have done. a lot of guys do the required volume and intensity of training but never quite get into the right race to set a fast pr, so they have done the work and acquired the characteristics, but don't necessarily have the pr to prove it.

look at Bill Rodgers, for example, he never broke 28:00 for 10,000m or 14:00 for 5000m but was one of the world's leading marathon runners for a number of years. that he never broke 28:00 is not special or important, what matters is that he did the volume and intensity of training for long enough to acquire the characteristics to become a top marathon runner. having said that, Buddy Edelen, for example, was American record holder for 10,000m, Alberto Salazar, was American record holder at both 5000m and 10,000m, Frank Shorter broke the American record for 10,000m twice at the Munich Olympics and held the American indoor record for 2 miles. they did their apprenticeship at the long track races.

so don't get too focused on pr's and just remember the principle: the guys who have done the work and acquired the characteristics to be world class 10,000m runners, will, on average, tend to be faster marathon runners. so, the limiting factor with US marathon runners is not the training they do as professional marathon runners, it is that they get cut off after four years of college with two years of 10,000m training still needed to do to acquire the requisite characteristics to be a world class 10,000m runner. is there any particular reason to suppose that it SHOULD, logically, take as long to acquire a philosophy degree as it does to become a world class 10,000m runner? by arbitrarily ending their track career after four years of college just because they happen to have a degree the United States system, led by the NCAA, virtually cuts these guys off at the knees.

why is this any different to the heyday of the 1980's, those guys only did four years of college? look at Bill Rodgers race history (link below) and count up how many shorter road races he ran. look at how many races of 10 miles, 10km, 20km and other assorted shorter distances he ran and compare that with the race history of say Ryan Hall or Meb Keflezighi or any of the more recent US marathon runners and you will see that over their entire career the great marathon runners of the past, Buddy Edelen, Frank Shorter, Alberto Salazar, Dick Beardsley, whoever you look at you will see that they built up to being marathon racers more gradually by training for and racing shorter distances both more frequently and for more years than is currently the case. all this time they were acquiring the characteristics to become world class 10,000m racers. and they could do this because they were not prey to the demands of sponsors and were not racing simply to make money.

this training deficit does not apply to Galen Rupp because after leaving college he stayed as a dedicated 5000m and 10,000m racer for a number of years before becoming a marathon runner. 2009, Galen Rupp did the 5000m / 10,000m double at NCAA and won the US 10,000m championship, his final race for Oregon. then he turned pro. 2010, he won US championship 10,000m and ran world indoor 3000m. 2011, he set an AR at 5000m indoors, won the US championship and ran the 5000m / 10,000m double at the world championships, then set an AR at 10,000m in Brussels. 2012, set an AR at 2 miles indoors, won the US championship at both 5000m and 10,000m, and did the double at the Olympic games in London earning a silver medal. during the next couple of years he set AR at 3000m indoors, 2 miles indoors, 5000m indoors, and an AR at 10,000m outdoors at Eugene in May 2014, five years after leaving college. he didn't run a marathon until 2016. during those years he finished acquiring the characteristics of a world class 10,000m runner, and has since built upon them to acquire the characteristics of a world class marathon runner. compare that build up and preparation to almost any other current US marathon runner and the facts will speak for themselves. you cannot out race poor preparation.

Eliud Kipchoge, by the way, burst onto the international athletics scene in 2002 with 13:13.03 for 5000m and the following year he followed that up with 3rd place in the Kenyan trials in 13:25.50 (at altitude) and a win in the World Championship 5000m in 12:52.79. he didn't turn his hand to the marathon until 2013, eleven years later, by which time he had bests of 3:33.20 1500m, 3:50.40 mile, 4:59.2+ 2000m, 7:27.66 3000m, 8:07.39i 2 miles, 12:46.53 5000m, 26:49.02 10,000m and he had a silver and a bronze medal from the Olympic Games, a gold and silver from the World Championships, all earned at 5000m. this was no four-year development program, his success has been a long time coming.

the solution, then, to the problem of American marathon running is that when their four years of college are over, 5000m and 10,000m runners need a further two more years of racing and training for those distances before they turn to the marathon. they need to be able to race regularly over those distances in meets they do not currently have access to while somehow living on money they do not have. they therefore need to be funded during this period so that they are not tempted to turn to the marathon until they are properly ready. one solution to this problem is for USATF to sponsor (or strong arm the shoe companies into sponsoring) a certain number of them. not all of them, but some of them. USATF could give 25 male distance runners and 25 female distance runners $20,000 dollars each (that's a paltry $1 million per year out of their massive budget) and change the rules so that these folk can run in collegiate meets for two years after graduating college. they should run in NCAA meets, in the annual relays meets, the Drake Relays the Penn Relays, the Texas Relays and so forth, they should get invites to the high performance meets at Palo Alto but they should not race on the roads over any distance greater than half marathon. after their two years extended eligibility is over they will know whether they have it or not and they will have either earned themselves a sponsor, broken a record, won a US Championship or become a corporate drone in an office in Milwaukee, but importantly, they will have had the opportunity to find out over the period of time that is appropriate to their event, not merely decided at the whim of the NCAA. and after two or three years of this you will see more and more consistent results than ten years of the Nike Oregon Project for a ton less money.

cheers.

https://more.arrs.run/runner/3748

note: I did not say that the listed US 400m runners necessarily won their Olympic gold medal in a world record time. I said they set a world record, and they won an Olympic gold medal. which they each did. not necessarily simultaneously.

Excellent point on how often they race back than vs today. The Japanese for example do a lot of road races due to ekidens. And what would you know, the Japanese have about 10x the amount of sub 2:09 marathoners vs the US and have about a third the population. The mindset of not racing a lot and only doing two marathons a year has to go.

Hey What wrote:

You repeatedly use the UK as a tool to explain why Americans suck at distance running. That would be hilarious if it weren't so pathetic. It's 2018, son. Not the 1970s or 1980s. Meb K, Rupp, Flanagan, Linden, and Cragg have major marathon titles and/or Olympic and World Championships medals. The UK in the 21st century has WHAT? Any European nation or Australia or Canada has what, exactly?

UK/Great Britain has set National Records at 1500, 5000, 10000, Half Marathon and Marathon in the last decade and all of these were European Records as well EXCEPT the 5000. 2010-2019 will be the best UK/Great Britain has ever been in the Distance runs, These are the Golden Years for British distance running, Gold Medals at Globals, fast times etc. For a While I was wondering if Great Britain/UK/England had peaked in the years of Coe, Cram, Ovett, P. Elliot, Moorcraft, B. Foster, N. Rose, D. Bedford, Rowland etc, but the last decade has surpassed that Era.

And the USA is by far the best non African Country overall from 800-Marathon including the Steeple. Jager and Rupp are elite no matter how you look at it.

Just look at some of the threads here.

You pervs deify hs girl's running. Claiming a few as the goats, then pan them when thy grow out of the event or fail to meet your expectations.

The rest of the field gets no kudos, so disappears out of the sport. Overseas many of these kids keep running. Here you're cast aside as a 16 year old.

Half of you who worship Ingebrigtsen as a boy, will rip him to shreds if he never again runs 3:31. People who'd never broken 5 minutes for the most part.

The USA has no track and field opportunities outside school. And a sense of disdain for those who keep trying instead of getting a job. Local competitions are sparse and sporadic.

yada yada yada