East Africans are not genetically superior

ehw wrote:

Number 33 wrote:

I totally dissected the myth in that thread of mine 4 or 5 years ago, I showed how the myth of East African genetics has been used to mask doping while enriching a few dodgy Euro agents since the 1950's. I guess this is why the mods deleted it.

I remember that thread. There you also claimed that anyone running faster than 3:29 or 13:00 was a doper. And then Jakob came along. And then the fast Brits.

And you changed you mind. Zero integrity.

No, you're lying again. I have never said any such thing. I've often said that Coe, Cram, Ovett were capable of 3:27, even before taking into account modern tracks and super shoes.

Stop lying.

Yes, 2% performance difference and then you subtract 6% for the EPO. Steve Jones aline would be sub 2 hours easily with Kipchige EPO and super shoes.

1 in 1000 British teens aspire to be a marathon runner. 999 out of 1000 Ethiopian and Kenyan teens aspire to be a marathon runner. Add the rampant EPO abuse which improves marathon times by 10 minutes and you get your East African domination.

Kenyan performance levels have dropped off a cliff in the 5000 since the EPO era. Even the marathon is increasingly dominated by Ethiopians. The only reason is Kenya has been forced to bring in testing, and Ethiopia is a much harder nut to crack.

Kobbs Hessler wrote:

Some people really struggle to admit there are genetic differences between homo sapiens that evolved in different corners of the world. But the most basic logic, common sense, and observation suggests this is perfectly reasonable and indeed to be expected. But if there are physical differences, then... drumroll please... there also might be cognitive differences (cue shock and horror!) etc.

Yes, it's only a small step from claiming that East Africans have a 'running gene' to claiming that East Africans have 'no concept of time' and other such dangerous nonsense.

MplsRunnerDude wrote:

coevett, why do you care so much about this stuff? i've been subject to so, so many of your posts and they are almost all about how white british athletes are so great and the africans are cheaters. do you even run?

how exactly did this particular niche of the sporting world come to take up so much real estate in your brain?

also, why are the state records in my home state of MN held by members of the east african diaspora? do you think these somali/oromo kids are doping?

It's funny how doping apologists regularly claim that 'I'm obsessed.' Leaving aside the fact that some of you are actual likely paid trolls for Spanish managers of dopers, some of you literally spend hours on this site, others literally run 100 miles a week to improve your 5K hobbybjogger time that nobody cares about by 10 seconds. Why should I be ashamed, as an athletics fan, of spending maybe 1 hour a week on exposing the myth of East African distance superiority that is a cover for rampant doping, and that has almost killed our sport?

This is an athletics forum isn't it?

Strange.

Number 33 wrote:

1 in 1000 British teens aspire to be a marathon runner. 999 out of 1000 Ethiopian and Kenyan teens aspire to be a marathon runner.

False.

Ethiopian and Kenyan athletes come from a minority in their countries' population.^not that your word can ever be trusted, Coevett ;)

As for the previous post where you replied to me, you said Willis was the clean record holder and that anyone faster would have to be doping. Just because you included your fabulous 3 in your hypothetical 3:27 superhuman performances doesn't eliminate the rest.

Are you also going to deny you said no clean Kenyan is able to run under 3:35?

Anyway, I support whatever anti-doping crusade but your MO is horrible and pushes people away.

If you would refrain from lying and only attacking Africans (and a few select European countries) you could do something really constructive and commendable.

But alas, I have already told you this 2 or 3 years ago :(

An hour a week? HAHAHAHAHAHA :D I give it to you, you sometimes are a funny dude.

Passant wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

It is also not a simple matter of drugs, because if it were, it would have be easy for non-Africans to match the performances in the ‘90s, and in shielded countries like Russia, or (allegedly) East Africa.

Putting everything else aside, what non-Africans need are athletes that weigh 90-110 pounds, as 100% healthy adults.

The truth spoken. It's the kind of facts that Coevett alike don't want to hear.

In these Olympics finals, 800m, the true true freak were East Africans not the other "doping" white runners (easting and drinking better is another doping):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletics_at_the_1968_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Men's_800_metreshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletics_at_the_1972_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Men's_800_metres

What gibberish are you sprouting now? Imagine what this place is going to be like now with both this guy and El K posting?

MplsRunnerDude wrote:

also, why are the state records in my home state of MN held by members of the east african diaspora? do you think these somali/oromo kids are doping?

Doping/age cheating/stereotyping/having builds that are only good for running.

If an Ethiopian has a body type that is useless for any other sport so can only compete in distance running, does it mean he has a genetic advantage for running or does it mean he has a genetic disadvantage for every other sport than distance running?

30 years ago, most of the UK amateur wrestling champions were Americans. Today it's mostly Dagestanis and Iranians. I doubt very much if either group has a genetic advantage for wrestling, it's just about serious participation levels.

Seriously, if by government decree you forced every kid to pursue distance running in the USA, do you think Galen Rupp would still be the record holder? Look how one Norwegian family dedicated to distance running can produce three world class, with one of them having the seeming potential to be an all-time great.

dude, i can't think of a worse expenditure of money than paying trolls to act as "doping apologists" on a message board that is a small niche of an already niche sport.

also, i would argue it is you who is the weirdo if you actually don't run yet follow this sport so closely. i love it but only because i participate in it myself. apart from occasional dramatic races it's not very much fun to follow as a spectator.

do you also get all hot and bothered about african diaspora dominance in the NBA and NFL? i know you're british but maybe you should check those forums out. i think you could mine a lot of outrage from that.

Passant wrote:

I will always tell this. If a country like the Sudan was stable and economically stronger, they will put three 800m runners in every IAAF final.

No evidence for your Sudan 800m post. Physiologists, good coaches and many athletes know, 800m success is strongly correlated with 400m personal best. All elite male 800m men either are or were capable of 400m between 44.25 and 48.25 since 1980. Sudan has only six men in the history of Sudan with sub-46.5 400m. There is no evidence Sudan will produce a significant number of sub-48.25 400m men.

East Africa goes from Egypt down to Republic of South Africa. How can one generalize about east African running potential?

Ethiopians, those from Nepal and some from highlands in Central America and South America have a gene or series of genes which makes them the most resistant people on earth to acute & chronic altitude sickness. Human genes will mutate if several generations and greater live at altitude. Those from Nepal tend to have shorter wider bodies with a poor inseam to height ratio for running. Some or many from Central America & South America from highlands also have shorter wide bodies with poor inseam to height ratio for running. Kenyans also show genetic traits in regard to altitude sickness but Kenyan traits are not as significant as the groups I mentioned. U.S. in aggregate seems to produce the most sub-48.25 400m guys but Kenya appears to produce the most per capita. Kenyans in general like futbol/soccer but Kenyans do not lose potentially great 400m guys to American football.

Are east Africans less likely to have poor inseam to high ratio than others? Are Africans in general less likely to have poor inseam to height ratio? Is a poor inseam to height ratio a genetic trail common to Neanderthals? We know sub-Saharan Africans and Africans in the horn of Africa are less likely to have Neanderthal genes. How prevalent are Neanderthal genes in north Africans?

Passant wrote:

I will always tell this. If a country like the Sudan was stable and economically stronger, they will put three 800m runners in every IAAF final.

I will always tell this. If a country like GB was as passionate about track as it was about football, they will put three 800m runners in every IAAF final and they would win gold, silver, and bronze every time.

Yes. Same for Kenya and Ethiopia.

Coevett wrote:

Passant wrote:

I will always tell this. If a country like the Sudan was stable and economically stronger, they will put three 800m runners in every IAAF final.

I will always tell this. If a country like GB was as passionate about track as it was about football, they will put three 800m runners in every IAAF final and they would win gold, silver, and bronze every time.

I will always tell this. You are completely out of your mind.

10-15 years?

More like thirty years with the last fifteen being a period of total dominance!

The population of Kenya is about 50 million while Ethiopia's is about 110 million.

Look back 30 to 32 years ago. U.S. and Kenya both had about 8 sub-1:44 800m men if I recall correctly. I get the impression that the best men & women 400m runners in Kenya are choosing to specialize in 800m. In U.S., 44.xx & 45.xx 400m guys are doing fine for themselves specializing as 400m athletes. I would say in U.S., personal decisions made by 44.xx & 45.xx 400m men have given us the impression Kenyans are genetically superior 800m athletes.

Harold #1 wrote:

Yes. Same for Kenya and Ethiopia.

It's odd that the reason given by doping apologists for the decline in 800/1500/5000/10000 times in Kenya is that the most talented have 'gone to the roads', yet they refuse to take seriously the obvious truth that a country like GB (or Germany, Italy etc) likely lose dozens of sub 1:45 talent runners to football alone every year.

Number 33 wrote:

Harold #1 wrote:

Yes. Same for Kenya and Ethiopia.

It's odd that the reason given by doping apologists for the decline in 800/1500/5000/10000 times in Kenya is that the most talented have 'gone to the roads', yet they refuse to take seriously the obvious truth that a country like GB (or Germany, Italy etc) likely lose dozens of sub 1:45 talent runners to football alone every year.

Sir or Mam, You are the first poster I have read stating elite 800m & 1500m Kenyan runners are skipping 800m & 1500m to race 1/2 Marathons & Marathons. I cannot think of any other logical reason for Kenyan drop off in 5000m & 10000m level of success besides talented athletes in Kenya who would do well in 5000m & 10000m are going directly to 1/2 Marathon & Marathon.