Grampaw wrote:
Was a beta tester. Didn't work for me. When I need to drink it, it made me nauseous.
You don't need to swallow it, just make sure you get the shock reflex.
Grampaw wrote:
Was a beta tester. Didn't work for me. When I need to drink it, it made me nauseous.
You don't need to swallow it, just make sure you get the shock reflex.
Grampaw wrote:
Was a beta tester. Didn't work for me. When I need to drink it, it made me nauseous.
Does that mean that it also didn't have any effect on the cramps? Or were you stopped in your tracks out of nausea so you simply don't know?
I've had calf cramping issues for more than 40 years -- first as a runner (marathons in the low 3s and mid 2:50s) and now as a walker. I did the Honolulu Marathon in 2016 because I realized, a couple of months before the race, that it had been 40 years since my first marathon. I wasn't properly trained, was walking at a 15 min pace . . . and had calf cramps at 22 miles. So familiar, so annoying.
I suggest you look at your training. In my case, I always concluded that the cramping was because I wasn't ready for the effort, meaning my calves weren't. When I was a lot younger, it wasn't until I increased my long runs to 22-23 miles and started doing hard runs in the 20k range that I didn't have that 21-22 mile cramping. I had other problems, but not that.
Basically: not really ready for the effort --> cramps. Really ready --> no cramps.
Just this summer I had cramping problems on a solo 28 miler that I wasn't sure I was prepared for (I'd been diagnosed with prostate cancer and was on hormone therapy, meaning zero-T) but I wanted to do 75 k a month or so later and needed to get the work in no matter what. (I walk my age in km each year.) I climbed about 3000' and felt OK but when I turned to come back, my calves cramped up so badly that I had to call a neighbor for a pick up. I figured it was because my calves didn't like the push uphill and then a rapid change to downhill. But more likely I had just exhausted them (the rest of me was fine).
On the 75k day I was motoring along OK, climbed about 5000', 20 miles out where there's a downhill about half a mile long . . . at the bottom, calf cramps. I thought my day was over, limped along for another half a mile or so, thinking I was going to have to call for a pick up, but I decided to slow down 10-15 seconds a mile, and the cramping eased up, and didn't return. I worried about it a lot, though. The point was to get to the end, no matter how long it took, so I wasn't too bothered by needing to slow down. And I did get to 75k without incident.
Look -- what I've observed with my own body, and again note that this is a very long history, is that calf cramps appear when I'm not really ready for what I'm trying to do (even though I may think I am).
I think it's possible that your training can't support the times you want to run, and that you should experiment with your training.
I'm not suggesting you shouldn't try some of these drinks, not at all. But you'd be treating the symptoms, not the cause.
I plan to get some of that Hotshot stuff for next year, 76 k. Just in case.
Cramps during a marathon have been bedeviling me for 15 years. I have been running for 30+ years and have never once cramped during a training run. But I always cramp during marathons these days. Usually about mile 22-25. Last time, it was at mile 18. Definitely not dehydration, heat or electrolytes in my case. I was running 50-60 mpw and doing appropriate training with multiple 20+ mile runs, including a 22 mile run with last 10 miles at marathon pace (no cramps). Realistically I can’t train more than I did for my last marathon.
I will try Hot Shots or vinegar. I have nothing to lose. But I can’t simulate cramping in a training run. That has never happened.
It has to be something mental with me. The cramps are real but the trigger is mental. When I was in my 30s, I never cramped during marathons, even when I did way less training.
I have to agree there is a mental component to it. I have actually been able to make myself cramp in 2 training runs of 20+ miles with several thousand feet of elevation gain on trails. So I also think there is a component of being undertrained. But if HotShot or Pickle juice is all placebo I can say with certainty it works. That being said I have also been able to literally tell my cramps to "Fuc* Off!" out loud late in a race and have been able to stave them off. But whatever works and for whatever reason I do not really care as long as they don't totally ruin my race.
It is not a placebo. It is established that cramps are the result of hyperactive motor neurons which can be quieted via TRP channels:
http://www.teamhotshot.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/ScientificResearchOverview1152018.pdf
I didn't think that pickle juice/vinegar would have much effect on my night cramps, but it was an easy cheap "fix", so I decided "What the hell" and and it has worked every time.
75 and still doing distance wrote:
Basically: not really ready for the effort --> cramps. Really ready --> no cramps.
I think that there is definitely an element of running above one's capacity involved. However, in my case that hasn't really been the case.
Last year, after a pretty solid training block (Hanson's marathon method), I finished a marathon in just above 3 hours.
That time I cramped up (I have had cramp to different degrees in all my marathons) at about mile 20. However, after stopping and stretching (which probably cost me my sub-3 result) I was able to continue and managed to keep the cramping under control (but couldn't push it in the end).
This year, I thought I would do more long runs (several in the 20+ mile region and many with fast finishes at MP) to be better prepared. I felt in great shape but, as I mentioned earlier, that was to no avail, since I started getting the twinges already at half marathon, and all hell broke loose with 10 miles to go and I basically jogged the rest of the race.
I had caught a slight cold the week leading up to the race so that may have affected also. Still, I think I was in better shape this year, but I cramped *a lot* worse.
Not so happy wrote:
I have been running for 30+ years and have never once cramped during a training run. But I always cramp during marathons these days.
I never cramp on training either. Not on long runs, not on long runs with fast finishes. Hell, I have yet to cramp in a half marathon, but come marathon race day, my calves will start twitching around the half marathon point and I often feel the first signs already after about 10 miles.
Still, there appears to be some scientific support and much anectodal evidence that pickle juice actually works, and that the HOTSHOT drink may be onto something. I think I'll try both.
When it comes to pickle juice, are there any particular sports brands (like
) or would it be better to just buy some at a grocery store, or even mix your own?
Well, I feel for you -- I hope that's obvious. That little twinge that signals trouble's on the way . . . ugh.
You mentioned shoes, but you didn't say whether you use different shoes in a marathon than you do training. If you do, that might be part of it -- different drop, different footplant, different stress on the calves. Certainly a long shot.
I can't help wishing there was a way for you to trigger it in training. No fun for you, but then you could at least explore it in a non-critical situation.
75 and still doing distance wrote:
You mentioned shoes, but you didn't say whether you use different shoes in a marathon than you do training. If you do, that might be part of it -- different drop, different footplant, different stress on the calves. Certainly a long shot.
I did actually buy new shoes pretty close to the race. About two weeks out. So no long runs in them. But I bought them as a safety measure to have something a little more cushioned for race day. I ended up buying a pair of Nike zoom Pegasus Turbo. Pretty light and very nicely cushioned. But granted, I should probably have run at least one long run in them.
Get some packs of yellow mustard from the local burger place.
Surprisingly easy going down(but, it is still mustard)
Take a couple every 4- 5 miles or so.
This is big in major endurance events.
Happy cramper wrote:
Not so happy wrote:
I have been running for 30+ years and have never once cramped during a training run. But I always cramp during marathons these days.
I never cramp on training either. Not on long runs, not on long runs with fast finishes. Hell, I have yet to cramp in a half marathon, but come marathon race day, my calves will start twitching around the half marathon point and I often feel the first signs already after about 10 miles.
Yep. My same situation. Frustrating. Why do I feel twinges on marathon race day after 15 miles when I do hard 22 mile training runs and never cramp.
Not sure if it is related, but my heart rate on marathon race day is higher than on training runs for the same effort. But with a good taper, it should be lower.
My brain is not doing my body any favors.
Happy cramper wrote:
Once again my calfs started cramping during a marathon. I started getting the oh so familiar twitches about halfway (while everything was still feeling good and controlled). I knew what was coming but I soldiered on. The first cramp attack came at about 25k when I had to stop for the first time. As you can imagine, the remainder of the race was a death march. Equal parts limping/jogging and stretching. First half in 01:29:30. Second half in about 01:45:00. You get the idea.
I'm soo tired of having my races destroyed by cramps. I felt well prepared. Had done plenty of 10 milers at MP several 20+ milers with fast finish without any cramps. I hydrated well during the race, took several gels. Wore pretty cushioned shoes (Pegasus Turbo).
What can I do. This is so frustrating.
A runner I talked to after the race, with a history of cramps, had tried HOTSHOT sports drink at the onset of cramps and said that it actually helped. I would like to hear more anecdotal evidence before I buy a pack of this.
Sounds like you're undertrained and not in shape to run sub-3:00. 10 milers are not an indicator of marathon pace. Cramping and twitching what happens when you try to run a marathon faster than you can handle. 13-15 miles is early, and there's no way some salt product is going to carry you through another 11 miles at that pace without bonking.
15-18 milers @ MP or 20 miles at ~7:10 would be better indicators in my opinion
Hardloper wrote:
Sounds like you're undertrained and not in shape to run sub-3:00. 10 milers are not an indicator of marathon pace. Cramping and twitching what happens when you try to run a marathon faster than you can handle. 13-15 miles is early, and there's no way some salt product is going to carry you through another 11 miles at that pace without bonking.
15-18 milers @ MP or 20 miles at ~7:10 would be better indicators in my opinion
That may be the case, although last year I ran the same race in 03:00:XX on, what I believe was, a less ambitious training cycle (Hanson's).
I think the catch 22 problem is you ideally want to run the race i.e. marathon at a pace faster than you have ever run before, as that's how you pb. But obviously one can't replicate that pace for the full duration in training as that would effectively be the race. I get also cramps usually bang on mile 21, yet never in training and it's frustrating as heck.
I don't know about hotshots, but if you can stomach it surely it's worth a try.
My tips:
1. Train on a diversity of surfaces, but be sure to do some long runs on a surface (usually pavement) with similar elevation profile to your race.
2. Taper *less.*
3. Go for a short jog or vigorous walk the moment you wake up on race day. Try to get 10-15 minutes in prior to breakfast and heading to the race.
Good luck!